Tuomas says no new singer until 2014

[C.]

The forum's always been full of non-native speakers; it's the attitude that has changed and for some, not for the better.

 

[jadelion]

For me I also found that no matter what I said on the English Forum and how carefully I phrased it someone would be offended. I also felt that everything I said was being held under a microscope and it put me off saying anything; it was like one person thinks this so everyone must think this.

You can only speak from your own experience and I felt like I was being bullied by their NW sites that's why I wouldn't go on them anymore. I don't know if it was anything like that for Anette, bullying is just something she talks about on her blog I don't know if it is supposed to be relevant to Nightwish, but if it was anything like what I felt it was like with me then I could understand why you would want to leave.

Like someone was saying on another site Tuomas is the one who has the bear the brunt of public criticism for the split, he's the one who has to do the interview about it and field off the questions or have his photo next to the press article. If these decisions aren't being taken by him, or if other people are trying to sabotage things and pit people against each other then that sucks he has to take the fall for it. Especially for the Tuomas Holopainen site, that is claiming to represent him and all of the projects that he does rather than a band where there is various people involved and if they are not going to act in a professional way then maybe he might have to be taking the rap for that as well at some point in the future. He needs to delegate to people who are committed to the band of course but he needs people who will be trustworthy and reliable not manipulators with their own agendas. It should not be the manipulators being able to oust the ones who were reliable and good at their jobs.

Last time there was a split, he was writing songs about killing himself and saying that this saved his life. I know that probably won't happen this time, the circumstances are different (but he does look sick or something in that interview above and its more or less the first one he's given since the split). The circumstances are not the same, last time he wrote the open letter for example but I doubt he wrote that press statement, its pretty bad. (Tarja was the end of an era but Anette is the end of a "chapter"). But I think quite a lot of it was to do with feeling blame and guilt, when there are others involved.

 

[kathleenkat]

For me I also found that no matter what I said on the English Forum and how carefully I phrased it someone would be offended. I also felt that everything I said was being held under a microscope and it put me off saying anything; it was like one person thinks this so everyone must think this.

You can only speak from your own experience and I felt like I was being bullied by their NW sites that's why I wouldn't go on them anymore. I don't know if it was anything like that for Anette, bullying is just something she talks about on her blog I don't know if it is supposed to be relevant to Nightwish, but if it was anything like what I felt it was like with me then I could understand why you would want to leave.

Like someone was saying on another site Tuomas is the one who has the bear the brunt of public criticism for the split, he's the one who has to do the interview about it and field off the questions or have his photo next to the press article. If these decisions aren't being taken by him, or if other people are trying to sabotage things and pit people against each other then that sucks he has to take the fall for it. Especially for the Tuomas Holopainen site, that is claiming to represent him and all of the projects that he does rather than a band where there is various people involved and if they are not going to act in a professional way then maybe he might have to be taking the rap for that as well at some point in the future. He needs to delegate to people who are committed to the band of course but he needs people who will be trustworthy and reliable not manipulators with their own agendas. It should not be the manipulators being able to oust the ones who were reliable and good at their jobs.

Last time there was a split, he was writing songs about killing himself and saying that this saved his life. I know that probably won't happen this time, the circumstances are different (but he does look sick or something in that interview above and its more or less the first one he's given since the split). The circumstances are not the same, last time he wrote the open letter for example but I doubt he wrote that press statement, its pretty bad. (Tarja was the end of an era but Anette is the end of a "chapter"). But I think quite a lot of it was to do with feeling blame and guilt, when there are others involved.

A Tuomas Holopainen site? Forum? Eeesh, I'm scared to even look at it.

I re-created my account on the NW forum this week, and have been playing around with responding to topics, yet refusing to engage in conversation with the trolls, fangirls, and elitists. We'll see how it goes...outlook: not good. I'm doing it more for boredom than anything.

I suspect Tuomas made the final "leave, now" call with Anette. I say this only because it was he who fired Tarja in the letter, and he who initiated the manager to fire Sami.

 

[C.]

Let us knows how that goes. Personally I'd rather take up alcoholism or starting an ant farm if I feel that bored.

 

[Taimi]

A Tuomas Holopainen site? Forum? Eeesh, I'm scared to even look at it.

I re-created my account on the NW forum this week, and have been playing around with responding to topics, yet refusing to engage in conversation with the trolls, fangirls, and elitists. We'll see how it goes...outlook: not good. I'm doing it more for boredom than anything.

I suspect Tuomas made the final "leave, now" call with Anette. I say this only because it was he who fired Tarja in the letter, and he who initiated the manager to fire Sami.

Ok, from personal experience: TH.com is the same thing as the NW forum because they are run by the same little clique of people.

The sort of people that measure you by the length of time that you've been a fan, and are instantly critical of you if you dare think of speaking of Tuomas or Anette in a negative manner, but you can talk all the smack about Tarja you want, because from my PERSONAL opinion, this group of fans don't want to upset the person they put on the pedestal. You rub them wrong, you are marked.

Just my 2 cents on the "official" sites.

 

[C.]

From my understanding, Tarja isn't even allowed to be mentioned on some of those sites.

But as I do not belong to that elite group of people, I don't go to those places and would not care to know how they are run. I am busy enough managing things here.

You're judged by how long you've been a fan? Really? I've been a fan for over 11 years and it seems that the last people they want around are older fans who remember people like Sami and Tarja. Who remember when Marco was "the new guy" and not everyone hailed him as a metal god instantly, contrary to how history has since been rewritten. Or people who can tell you that it isn't Marco who sings on "Devil and the Deep Dark Ocean".

Seems like the older a fan you are, the more you are ostracized from these places. They only want folks who are new to the music and still have stars in their eyes so that everything they say is super-happy-fun-juice. Nothing wrong with that, but I remember the old Nightwish forum where all opinions were welcome, where people could—gasp!—*criticize* the music if that's how they felt.

What I'd really like to see now is how the criticism towards Anette is handled; how many of these same people who vehemently defended her just 3 months ago will now change their tune and say things like, "she was too pop, she was never right for Nightwish anyway"?

Anyway, I'd better stop now before I get more hate mail from certain people who make a living off harassing me.

 

[Traxan]

Well, she wasn't right for Nightwish. That is a fact. Tuomas did a good job of working around her weaknesses. I only wish she could have stepped out more gracefully.

 

[C.]

I'm not talking about fans like you or I, who have sense. I'm talking about the fangirls/fanboys who say nothing but nice things about certain people. I wonder now what their "viewpoint" will be now that Anette is gone?

 

[kathleenkat]

Let us knows how that goes. Personally I'd rather take up alcoholism or starting an ant farm if I feel that bored.

Oh, it took less than 6 hours after my first post to be accused of judging Floor Jansen's looks and not seeing what's really important by stating how I disliked a particular outfit of hers.

Jeesh. I wish Floor all the best of luck with her new fangirls.

 

[kathleenkat]

Ok, from personal experience: TH.com is the same thing as the NW forum because they are run by the same little clique of people.

The sort of people that measure you by the length of time that you've been a fan, and are instantly critical of you if you dare think of speaking of Tuomas or Anette in a negative manner, but you can talk all the smack about Tarja you want, because from my PERSONAL opinion, this group of fans don't want to upset the person they put on the pedestal. You rub them wrong, you are marked.

Just my 2 cents on the "official" sites.

Yeah (sorry for the double post, are those ban-able offenses like on NW.com?)

There is this person on NW forums that has in their signature "I joined originally in 2003 and made ~2093242398234098234098234 posts" like it matters.

 

[Traxan]

Floor won't have it anywhere near as bad, if at all.

a) Anette was a magnet for hatred because she was the replacement for Tarja. Floor is the Anette replacement, not Tarja's replacement.
b) Given many see Anette as unqualified/unsuitable, I reckon many Tarja fans will find Floor acceptable. She IS a better singer.
c) Anette's firing was not as acrymonious as Tarja's. Tuomas realizes this and is maintaining silence on any issues. There will be no "Bye Bye Beautiful Part 2."

Thus far, the only real reaction I'm seeing to Floor is asking 'How can we make her stay?'

 

[C.]

No, we don't ban here for things like that. We realize people make mistakes.

If you must know, I once had the reputation at the old forum as being the "sheriff without a gun" mod. I have only ever banned ONE person in my entire career as a mod. Banning should be a last resort when all other attempts to reason with a person has failed. Another reason why I do not fit into the dictatorship that all things "official" have become these days.

 

[Taimi]

Yeah (sorry for the double post, are those ban-able offenses like on NW.com?)

There is this person on NW forums that has in their signature "I joined originally in 2003 and made ~2093242398234098234098234 posts" like it matters.

A person that has been a fan for a week can still have more knowledge than a person that's been a casual fan for 10 years.

And yes. I got banned over defending a non-native speakers comment of 'Anette looks fat in that outfit' There were apparently many, MANY reports of how evil I was being, and I quite literally told the mod to go eff herself and delete my account if they can't accept critique.

 

[C.]

Yes, it doesn't matter how long a person has been a fan, obviously...besides, no matter how long we've been a fan, none of us can ever hope to have as much knowledge as Enigma!

 

[kathleenkat]

I was originally banned from the NW forum in 2007(?) for inquiring whether anyone knew of a place where I could download a certain song from a certain band (I don't remember the song or band). Apparently, the moderator assumed I was seeking illegal downloads, though I think she just had a personal vendetta against me for being highly critical of Evanescence (which I do for some reason remember was her favorite band). Perhaps I was looking for an Evanescence song

 

[C.]

That definitely wasn't me, as everyone knows I hate Evanescence!

But, looking for downloads, even legal ones, was forbidden back then. The rules at the older forums were not as many, and much more clear-cut. Not like nowadays, where the mods ban you based on personal vendetta and not because you necessarily broke any rules.

 

[kathleenkat]

That definitely wasn't me, as everyone knows I hate Evanescence!

But, looking for downloads, even legal ones, was forbidden back then. The rules at the older forums were not as many, and much more clear-cut. Not like nowadays, where the mods ban you based on personal vendetta and not because you necessarily broke any rules.

I don't see why it would be forbidden; if a song is not available on a CD, or on iTunes, yet you want it...you look for it elsewhere. Makes sense to me. I have seen songs sold directly from bands, on their websites. I have seen songs given away for free by bands (I have hundreds of these songs from dozens of groups).

I didn't even hate Evanescence too (and I don't). I was just highly critical and thought that Amy Lee wasn't the kiss-feet-worthy goddess of voice that everyone thought she was. I actually own an Evanescence CD and I think that gives me *more* right to be critical of the music

There is a forum on the NW forum, about the moderators. They have a thread where they list all the banned members, and why they were banned. Considering banned members wouldn't even be able to view it, I think that's a little unprofessional.

 

[C.]

They never had anything like that on the moderators' forum when I was a mod, and I survived 2 incarnations of the forum. But like I said, the way things are done now are a world different than how it was when I was a mod.

Believe me, some of the rules I did not understand even back then, but I accepted that this was the band's forum, they pay for it, and if these are the rules they want implemented, it's my job as a mod to see them through. Downloading is definitely an area where I disagree with "the rules". I am all for it because I think in the long run it brings bands more success, and if it were up to me, I'd have no problem with people asking about downloads on the forum. But this was one of the rules. I guess they figured that even asking for legal downloads left the door open for that can of worms that they didn't need to deal with. But that's part of being a (good) mod; sometimes you have to do things you don't necessarily agree with for the betterment of the entire forum. I don't think it was right that you were banned for that; I would have at least given you a warning. That works 99 out of 100 times; when you tell a person that they have broken a rule and why we have the rule, most understand it, apologize, and don't do it again. I really don't feel banning is ever necessary, except in those instances when you have warned them, given them temporary banning as a way to enforce the rule they will not follow, and they still continue to disrespect the rules. Since this has only happened one time in all the years I've been a mod, it's safe to say that most people are smart enough to understand rules once they are explained to them, and there's no need for such extreme action. A mod's job is to keep the community a safe and friendly place to be, not to alienate people just because they don't fall in line according to how the mods or admins think they should, or because that person doesn't belong to the inside clique.

 

[BaraHime]

RAWR! :Shedevil: I'm back from the ashes of a dead hard drive! Who missed me? ...... *Crickets* .... -_-


I've been trying to like Floor, I really have, I've been watching some of the bootlegs on youtube now that I'm online again... But I just... Can't. Her low notes don't impress me and her highs are so sharp it's downright painful. ...So basically, she's a Soprano. :Shedevil: We hates Sopranos! And Hobbitses!

 

[C.]

I missed you! I was wondering where you've been!

That's OK, you're not the only one who has told me they are not a fan of Floor. To be honest, I wasn't on the Floor bandwagon at first either. Just like with Anette, seeing her live turned me around.