what could opeth do better after Blackwaterpark ?
- Thread starter opethfan
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JesusChristPose
Logic Dictates
I wonder if maybe they'll mess with their tunings. Demon of the Fall is the only song they've written in Drop D so I think Opeth still has a ton of potential in that realm.
The Invoking
show me ur tits my dear!
So Michael may have promised that Deliverance was gonna be a "really extreme" album.. remember tho he was pushed to do 2 albums at the same time. Maybe he just choked under all the pressure 
segaszivos
Member
This supposed "Black Metal" album that is going to be produced sounds really cool and promising. With the new keyboardist, the band could bring back black metal to the fans.
Anarkissed
BOK CHOY!!!
I personally would love to hear an Orchid or MAYH-style album again. There's this amazing darkness and depth in both of those records that's kept those discs spinning in my stereo more than the others. I'd have to half agree and disagree with the the 'kick Steven Wilson' debate - it's fair to say that he has definitely lifted their sound and increased Opeth's popularity. Their last three albums have sounded a lot more 'clean cut'. But the reason why I am partly against him is Opeth is beginning to sound over produced (IMO, don't hit me for saying it, please!). When bands begin to sound over-produced they begin to lose the orginality that they used to achieve.
To me, Blackwater Park is an amazing album with a blend of all their albums, although at times *slightly* too mellow. Not to say that it isn't a beautiful album, though, because it definitely is a masterpiece, not unlike every other album they've created though. What I reckon would be perfect for their next album would be a recording similar to Orchid or MAYH. Definitely Steven Wilson should still produce them - the sound he has given them is unparalleled. But i reckon he's got to keep his involvement in the band's music itself to a minimum. I found them more interesting when Opeth were Opeth and not 'Opeth Tree'.
To me, Blackwater Park is an amazing album with a blend of all their albums, although at times *slightly* too mellow. Not to say that it isn't a beautiful album, though, because it definitely is a masterpiece, not unlike every other album they've created though. What I reckon would be perfect for their next album would be a recording similar to Orchid or MAYH. Definitely Steven Wilson should still produce them - the sound he has given them is unparalleled. But i reckon he's got to keep his involvement in the band's music itself to a minimum. I found them more interesting when Opeth were Opeth and not 'Opeth Tree'.
Protected Witness
Magickal Theatre 33
Anarkissed said:
Define "overproduced."
Why do people think Opeth sounds like Porcupine Tree now? What they sound like is Opeth with Steven Wilson doing background vocals to me...
Stormwatch
Cock.
I agree BWP is slightly too mellow. But Deliverance more than makes up for it so if I want a brutal record I listen to Deliverance.
Anarkissed
BOK CHOY!!!
I meant to put that term as lightly as possible. I guess what i mean by overproduced is when a band sort of covers up their 'orginal' sound in the production process. An example of overproduction is when a boyband have not-so-perfect vocals that are perfected with technology. Now this isn't to say that Opeth are the same, and to tell the truth i'm having a bit of trouble putting it into words. When you compare BWP to any of their older albums, you can immediately tell the difference. Admittedly I miss that 'raw' sound that they had. It's the little things, the subtle nuances of how the instruments are played that are too often covered up by overproduction.Mr. Niel said:
I guess the best way to describe it is when they play live. If they play Demon of the Fall and you compare it to the album, you're more likely to think it was a live recording as compared to if you heard the Drapery Falls. There are so many things that have been tweaked and played with in that song on the studio recording.
I dont mean to complain, of course. It sounds awesome but as I said, I prefer that live, raw sound.
But that's just my opinion.
As for the PT influence, if you listen to some of their stuff you'll instantly recognize the similarities in both production and style of music. The riffs are more structured and repetitive (Deliverance in particular), when you compare them to say, Orchid, where the riffs are longer and, dare i say it - more detailed. I have to stress that by saying this, i don't necessarily mean one is better than the other, although it is obvious what i prefer.
To an extent, I have to disagree with people saying that Deliverance is 'brutal'. Yes, the majority of the album consists of distorted guitars and has less soft and/or acoustic work, but to me, it lacks the energy and pure darkness of My Arms Your Hearse.
Staffan
Soelen gaaer bag aase ned
Midwinter_melancholY said:
correctt but I didn't say that it had no atmosphere I just find that it has a little less atmosphere than BP.
Staffan
Soelen gaaer bag aase ned
I don't think BP is overproduced, not at all. Of course on the album there are some parts where there are like 8 guitars going on(not counting the doubling) but I think it's often that that makes a part of the atmosphere.
Anarkissed said:
I gotcha. Too many overdubs? Well, Mike has alluded to the fact that he is just more inclined to that kind of production nowadays...throw as much on top as possible (a la Still Life).
I still don't agree with the PT comparison. Opeth songs started becoming more "repetitive and structered" (or, different from Orchid/Morningrise style) with My Arms, Your Hearse. To quote Mike from an interview:
Guitar World: Do you have any formal training? You seem to have a pretty highly developed sense of composition.
Mikeal Akerfeldt: No, I've never studied harmony, I've just relied on my ear. If you listen to our first album, Orchid (1995, Candlelight), you'll hear that riffs in our songs were less connected, but through the years I've learned how to integrate all of our ideas in a much more coherent fashion. When you write songs that last longer than 10 minutes, it becomes important.
(August 2001)
If anything, I feel Steven Wilson's biggest influence on Opeth has been using the best production possible (a la Porcupine Tree). I know some people aren't a fan of perfect or even great production (especially Death Metal bands.), but I love it. I'm definetly on their side when it comes to great production.
Which isn't to say that I can't get into records with a different kind of "older" production (even though Mike has said he doesn't care for Morningrise's production style at all anymore, would it really be the same album if it was any different?), but I have definetly grown towards the more modern style of studio sounds. Sure, every major label band attempts to sound as perfect as possible, but thier flaws are more than evident in the live Setting (please see the DEFTONES). This cannot be said for Opeth.
SculptedCold
-scented manbeef-
that's very true, orchid's songs in particular sound very patched-up and stuck together with little real coherence. he's definately gotten better at minimizing that feeling.
Anarkissed
BOK CHOY!!!
Yeah Orchid does seem to have that sorta quality. That's probably one of the reasons why it takes so long to grow on you. People respond better when things glide smoothly from one part to another, whereas Orchid's riffs often end rather abruptly. But once you've listened to the album several times you begin to learn when the mood is going to change and it becomes part of you - when that happens, things are better left as it is.
Needled24Seven said:
That's how I feel about it.
However, some bands, particularly Death metal and punk bands, find some aesthetic qualities in shitty, half-assed production.
Opeth75
Metal Chick
That is not there new keyboardist. He is from another band called Spiritual Beggars. Steve Wilson Played the keyboards on the Damnation Album.
Slynt
Lord and Liar
For me, a perfect next OPETH cd would have the MOOD of 'My Arms Your Hearse', the production of 'Damnation' in the calm parts and the production of 'Still Life' in the hard parts, and the song structures of 'Orchid' and 'Morningrise'.
Everyone has their opinions, and obviously, by looking at this thread, they are all very different. I personally, don't listen to MAYH or orchid, don't know why. Just seem a bit 'raw' to me..... I like Morningrise, Deliverence, Damnation. BWP and SL are other albums I don't listen to much....
DE
vote bnp
Azogue said:Blackwater Park is far from being "the more beautiful album". What can they do next, after their 4th best album (that's how I rank BWP)? Well, they can go back to their former sound (I would die of fanboy-ism if this happened....but it won't) or they can do something completely different and mindblowing. If they stay on track and continue with the BWP/Deliverance "sound", then I think Opeth will finally fall from my grace once and for all...and I wouldn't feel sad; they've given us some amazing music in the past. In fact, I think the band might be at the end of their run, and quitting while you're ahead (Damnation) is a wise move....unless they come up with something completely mindblowing next, which would be a dream come true....but that seems unlikely, seeing as how Mikael promised something "very extreme" for the next album, which is basically the same thing he said about Deliverance.
Orchid, Morningrise and My Arms, Your Hearse are infinetely superior to BWP. They mop the floor with it.
I still LOVE Blackwater Park, but nothing has topped their first three albums, in my opinion.
Orchid and Morningrise have those beautiful dual guitar harmonies, and MAYH is one of the most atmospheric albums I have ever heard.
Blackwater Park is my favorite of their "new" phase/sound, and I'll always love it to death, but the Steven Wilson influence is almost overbearing.
Deliverance is by far their weakest album, at least to me. It feels incredibly disjointed, effortless and just half assed. And Steven Wilson's influence is even more blatant here (although he had more input on BWP). Deliverance is the only Opeth album I could live without....although A Fair Judgement still rocks my socks
Oh, and I love Porcupine Tree as well, but I just hope the next album will be Wilson-free...and maybe Opeth could go back to those amazing guitar harmonies OR try something completely different. Here's hoping for the latter
*hands you a medal*
You, good sir, hit the nail on the head.
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