What didn't you like about Deliverance?

The Hubster said:
Deliverence is a good record, but the production doesn't do justice to how heavy some of the songs really are. There's a lack of colour to the production, which sometimes blocks the full texture of sounds coming through, especially with the drums (Lopez's performance on the record is really something wouldn't you folks agree?)

Also, there's a lack of *overall* complexity on this record, and increase in repetition. Mind you, there are parts of songs which are furiously complex! (Hope this makes sense).

However, Mike's grim vocal performance on this record is outstanding (listen to Wreath and you'll see).

Deliverance has something "missing" though, it's hard to figure out what that could be though, the album is by no means a failure, hell it totally craps on the cheap toilet paper they produced with Ghost Reveries (which I might add, I still haven't bought and will wait for it to sit in a bargain bin for $10 before I do).
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Lopez' performance is 'amazing' because Andy Sneap did to the mix what he typically does: chop all the hits up and put em in time with beat detective. I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but the drums tend to sound very sampled and fake. Andy didn't have a lot to work with after the disaster that was the Deliverance tracking session. The kick is 100% sampled and the snare is 50% sample. That leaves us with the cymbals and toms being the most natural part. Lopez' playing sounds amazing on this record because Andy made it amazingly tight - inhumanly tight. This isn't discounting of course that Lopez is a fantastic drummer, but you need to understand that he had a lot of technical 'help' during the mix phase to get the drums that tight.

Likening Ghost Reveries to toilet paper... get over it man. I can accept people expressing opinions, but that's downright even below ignorant.

The main reasons I didn't like Deliverance are as follows:

- The songs feel forced. A good number of the tracks feel like they could quite easily be cut down to about half the size. Wreath, Deliverance and Master's Apprentice are fine examples of this. It feels like Opeth were trying to push the 10 minute boundary just because of that being what they do.

- The songs feel like they're forcing the Opeth formula™. Heavy, light, heavy, light... it got almost predictable, because every boust of heavy riffing was of course complemented with some acoustic ditty/ambient part. It undermined that whole idea of being unpredictable.

- Sterile production sound. It may work for Nevermore, Arch Enemy, Kreator etc. but Opeth just aren't a band that the whole 'lets chop the kit up and make it sound like a drum machine' approach works for. This is one of the reasons that GR is so fantastic. It's so fucking raw, yet so produced as well.

- Boring individual riffs. I hate to say it but a lot of the stuff just sounds like filler material. Ghost Reveries tends to catch a bit of this, but the great thing is that it's concealed by fantastic vocal melodies, keyboards and various other harmonic layering approaches.

I know the management got kind of shitty with me the last time I talked about Deliverance, but I'm really just voicing a harmless opinion. Not all of you guys agree with me, and I certainly doubt I'll sway any of you towards my viewpoint with my words alone.

Having said all that, Ghost Reveries has come along and rectified pretty much all the issues I had with Deliverance and I'm EXTREMELY happy with another very fine release from Opeth, who are back to doing what they do best... pushing the boundaries, doing something new... being unpredictable etc. etc. more blowing sunshine in their rear, hehe.

Once again, Deliverance is certainly listenable, but I just feel it falls under par when put side-to-side with Opeth's other releases.
 
My problems with Deliverance are as follows: I really don't like the snare sound first of all. This might not sound huge, but it actually affects a lot of the aural enjoyment of the songs. This doesn't affect as much in the more layered parts, but when they have less dense riffs the issue comes up.

My biggest problem is I don't get a sense of completion from the album. I just always feel like I'm listening to a collection of really good songs.

However, I think Deliverance is great, not my fave (Still Life, no one will ever harm you), but still great. It took me a while to get used to the more subtle layering and atmospheric changes, which are really subtle, but then I really loved them. I think one thing which makes Deliverance fascinating at the same time could be a draw, is that it (moreso than any other album) seems to just reflect and explore the subtleties of one/two emotion(s). Other than the lead line/melody of A Fair Judgement, which is triumphant (and contextualizes and justifies the 'Deliverance' outro), everything is firmly mired in depression and this encasement of dark emotion and personal struggle. Even the melody of A Fair Judgement is triumphant almost ironically so within the confines of the album. Especially with the rest of the sadness in that song, the line seems like it struggles to break through, and almost does, and then we have the fragile last verse, the outro, and the wonderful For Absent Friends to firmly transition and anchor the emotion back into something of turmoil, all firmly residing within self. Every other album is much more emotionally multi-faceted (even if still dark and sad), yet no other album musically explores the multi-faceted nature of a single emotion nearly as thoroughly as Deliverance.
 
They aren't fully sampled to my knowledge. It's just the kick that's 100% sample, the snare is 50%. The toms tend to sound natural to me, but I don't concretely know what they are. They could be another sample blend, I'm not sure.

Nonetheless you can just hear how those kicks have been chopped up and put in perfect tempo with the song. It doesn't sound natural.
 
I would have to agree with a lot of people in here when I say it didn't have the feel of MAYH or Still Life...

Those two albums when they came out back to back were just impressive beyond comparison to any other Opeth album. Blackwater Park is actually a pretty good album, but it doesn't bring out as much emotion as the other two...

I'll show you all where Deliverance comes in on my list...

1. My Arms Your Hearse
2. Blackwater Park(would have been lower if it weren't for The Drapery Falls)
3. Still Life
4. Ghost Reveries
5. Deliverance
6. Damnation
7. Morningrise
8. Orchid

I didn't like the earlier Opeth as much not only because of the bad quality, but it didn't have a good feel of intensity behind it. When Mikael and Mike Lindstrom were the only two members of the band in 1997(before they recruited the Martins), I think it was a time of maturity for the band. Deliverance is by all means a great album. It's exactly like how Led Zepplin came out with a whole bunch of great albums that can't really be argued on which one was better.....
 
Jon Snow said:
:err:
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Pretty sure they were the only two considering they still hadn't recruited Martin Lopez and Mendez back in 1997(both from south america). I know this only because on the credits, Mikael both plays guitar and bass on MAYH...
 
I always thought Delieverance was too 'crunchy' not really Opethish. It had it's moments, but it's brillance wasn't as consistant obviously as their other albums. Though I know it must have been stressful trying to come up with two par albums on such a short amount of time.
 
Brackofthemountain said:
1. My Arms Your Hearse
2. Blackwater Park(would have been lower if it weren't for The Drapery Falls)
3. Still Life
Click to expand...


Blackwater Park surpassed Still Life on the strength of the Drapery Falls alone?! :guh:

I see nothing... o_O
 
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