What defines 'alternative' metal

[Omni]

I was talking about AC/DC there, not the Velvet Underground.

You're imagining things I never said. Musically, the VU was an alternative to most/all other rock music of their time. I accept that. But how is it possible for them to be "widely" in line with a genre that is defined by its diversity? You can still use that argument to call all sorts of stuff alternative. The book you cited also mentioned Throbbing Gristle; is all industrial music now alternative?

According to most people, yes. I doubt that you're a listener of industrial music though so I accept your ignorance of that. Velvet Underground is clearly an early alternative rock group and they sound clearly as such.

I did not invent you stating that Burzum matches my description of alternative music.

So are you saying that Burzum, for example, did adhere to the mainstream conventions of rock music at the time? Because if not, it logically follows that he would be alternative by your definition. Same goes for Black Sabbath tbqh.

This totally ignores the second part of my statement. Get better at reading.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Most people call Throbbing Gristle alternative rock? lolno.

The second part of your statement is meaningless because it's already invalidated by the claim that alternative music is anything that doesn't fall into mainstream rock conventions.

 

[Baroque]

I doubt that you're a listener of industrial music though so I accept your ignorance of that.

..

Get better at reading.

Someone accused ad hominem?

 

[Omni]

Where did you say alternative rock? The question that I answered only says "alternative" and industrial is a style of alternative music, born out of the post-punk movement. You apparently can't even keep track of what you're saying.

Most people call Throbbing Gristle alternative rock? lolno.

The second part of your statement is meaningless because it's already invalidated by the claim that alternative music is anything that doesn't fall into mainstream rock conventions.

Where did I state that was the sole requirement to meet the current definition of alternative music? Oh, nowhere.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You're using alternative and alternative rock interchangeably, I don't really care which of the two you're using because it doesn't matter in this context. "Alternative" alone isn't used as a term for music, and people don't call Throbbing Gristle "alternative" in the same context that they call alternative rock "alternative". Additionally, you seem to think 1) post-punk isn't rock music (wrong) and 2) Throbbing Gristle came out of that scene (wrong).

 

[Omni]

No, I'm actually not. I'm using alternative music in general as the core of my argument and have cited a pioneering alternative rock group during my argument, as it is the first style of alternative music to gain a wide influence.

Where did I state that post-punk is not rock? Nowhere.

Throbbing Gristle's main influence is post-punk and their earliest recordings have obvious influence from that style of music. I actually listen to them so maybe I might know something about them.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you think Throbbing Gristle is alternative music? If so, why?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Also:

There is absolutely no reason why certain artists that existed in the 1960s are not alternative rock, such as The Velvet Underground, David Bowie and The Stooges, among others.

 

[CiG]

So it means family?

Yeah.
It might make more sense if you supplant fam with bro.

 

[Omni]

Do you think Throbbing Gristle is alternative music? If so, why?

Probably because industrial music is part of that umbrella and shares a common element with other alternative genres.

Oh no, I called some alternative rock bands alternative rock. How horrible.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Probably because industrial music is part of that umbrella and shares a common element with other alternative genres.

Oh no, I called some alternative rock bands alternative rock. How horrible.

How is industrial music part of that umbrella? What common element is shared?

 

[Omni]

It has origins in alternative rock music, notably noisy and experimental post-punk acts such as Pere Ubu, Wire, The Pop Group and others. Throbbing Gristle's earliest recordings are much like those bands in a lot of ways, as are their contemporaries, Cabaret Voltaire. Both bands have also flirted with more post-punk and new wave sounds during parts of their careers, under those names and as additional projects outside of them.

Personally, my favorite associated group is Coil.

 

[CiG]

It has origins in alternative rock music, notably noisy and experimental post-punk acts such as Pere Ubu, Wire, The Pop Group and others. Throbbing Gristle's earliest recordings are much like those bands in a lot of ways, as are their contemporaries, Cabaret Voltaire. Both bands have also flirted with more post-punk and new wave sounds during parts of their careers, under those names and as additional projects outside of them.

Personally, my favorite associated group is Coil.

Are you saying Industrial has origins in Wire, Pere Ubu, The Pop Group or are you saying Throbbing Gristle does?

 

[CiG]

Okay just making sure, because Throbbing Gristle predate all those bands except Pere Ubu.

 

[Omni]

Yes, I know. That doesn't make it impossible for bands to share the same stylistic origins and be influenced by the same scene. Post-punk in general continued to influence industrial music for years as the genre became more varied and defined.

 

[Omni]

To clarify on that, I'm citing them as bands who have similarities with Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire because all of the bands have the same core influences and stylistic origins and all of them have been very influential on industrial music over time.

This is beside the point by now but in all honesty, if you want to make a case that Burzum has substantial outside influences, he clearly likes German electronic music and krautrock because his ambient tracks bear obvious similarities with them.

 

[CiG]

I remember reading also that one of Varg's favourite bands is The Cure.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, totally post-punk there bro.

 

[Omni]

You must not realize how similar early industrial and a lot of post-punk actually are. You also must not realize that Throbbing Gristle was formed in the British post-punk scene and shares formative influences with the other bands there. A lot of post-punk is extremely noisy and experimental. I even named some acts that are considered seminal influences on industrial music alongside Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire. The main differences between the two are that post-punk groups trended more towards rock or pop song norms while industrial music was often very against those types of song structures as a matter of principle. The experimentation found in either one was often very similar when you take that aside.

I get that you want to be right, but I can't allow you to think that you are when you aren't. You currently remind me of someone who has heard Joy Division and thinks that all post-punk sounds like them.

 

[The Ozzman]

I get that you want to be right, but I can't allow you to think that you are when you aren't.

What you fail to realize is that the only person on this site who is right at all times is me. Failure to think so results in a 7 day ban.