What defines 'alternative' metal

[Omni]

For my final request, explain why Cabaret Voltaire, a first-wave industrial act, cites The Velvet Underground as an important influence and has covered their music live and in studio.

Those are some of the primary shared influences on both styles of music. That has been made clear already. I never stated those were all of their influences nor implied that. Electronic music was not as major an influence on post-punk aside from krautrock and similar music if you count those. I mentioned that.

You gave up on proving that there isn't a shared history and scene due to overwhelming evidence against your claims. I'm not responding further unless you can offer legitimate evidence that I'm wrong, which will never occur.



This sounds suspiciously similar to early industrial music in a lot of ways.

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That looks as coherent as HamburgerBoy's argument against documented musical history.

 

[RedStorm]

fkm,cw;
MENVRKMELC,WDFNJKJNEKM,W

 

[no country for old wainds]

That looks as coherent as HamburgerBoy's argument against documented musical history.

sick burn

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I never denied an influence, but what Velvet Underground most strongly resembles that 1974-1976 comp? I would say that the influence is secondary to that of other artists experimenting with electronic and musique concrete, and therefore if that influence from the Velvet Underground is enough to label industrial as 'alternative', even slight amounts of influence on black metal prove that black metal too is alternative.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

sick burn

Except not really, harpy. Are you seriously agreeing with her definition of alternative music?

 

[RedStorm]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic, dumb ass ^^^^

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Second-wave black metal and dungeon ambient came about at the same time, with shared musicians, in the same locale, with crossover and collaborations. Therefore, early dungeon ambient is a type of metal music.

 

[CiG]

The Velvet Underground are definitely the major influence in both Punk and Industrial and serve as a legit link between both worlds.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic, dumb ass ^^^^

yikes, owned by itp of all people

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The Velvet Underground are definitely the major influence in both Punk and Industrial and serve as a legit link between both worlds.

Again, what are TVU's most industrial recordings?

 

[CiG]

Again, what are TVU's most industrial recordings?

It has much more to do with the free expression art thing than any direct musical influence, the experimentalism of their more noisy songs are probably the best place to start, like this.

 

[J.]

Members of The Fucking Champs also recorded Weakling's Dead as Dreams, therefore The Fucking Champs are black metal and/or Weakling is instrumental prog rock

 

[RedStorm]

ah cool, didn't know that ^^^^

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The Velvet Underground didn't invent the 60s. They were the first rock band to incorporate the New York expressionism thing into their music, but they didn't form out of a vacuum. Throbbing Gristle and so many others similarly formed not directly from a specific form of rock music or "experimental music", but also out of art houses and theater and etc. To credit TVU with "free expression art" is to widely overstate their significance, even if they can be called the first band to incorporate it into their music. For more direct musical influence on industrial I think you could at least go for something like the Silver Apples or other early electronic rock artists. If you're going to call all of that "alternative", fine, but then no one should get pissy when I call black metal alternative metal.

 

[CiG]

Now you're just being ridiculous, it's not about who started something, but who popularised it.
Creating a song like Loop in 1966 is very noteworthy.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

From a rock music standpoint, yes.

 

[CiG]

If you watch documentaries or read interviews from these bands, you will overwhelmingly find that these bands cite The Velvet Underground as a major influence.

Nothing is completely original, but somehow I don't think that is relevant to your point is it?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I've never denied the major influence of TVU on music of the 60s and 70s. What I'm denying is that when others had been messing with tape music/sound collage type stuff well before, that it is enough to declare them the primary influence on industrial music, and therefore to declare all industrial music "alternative" due to TVU being the first rock band with an "alternative" sound. And I don't even care much about that; I don't really like much industrial music, and the only Velvet Underground song I really enjoy is The Murder Mystery anyways. My bigger point is that if one little thread of "alternative" influence makes industrial music "alternative", then metal sure as fuck is alternative music, let alone black metal.

 

[CiG]

Well, outsider music as a whole is alternative in the sense that dressing like a metalhead/goth/punk/etc is having an alternative lifestyle.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Cool, so everything is alternative then.