AsoTamaki
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- Jun 10, 2011
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Exactly this. Also, they were a lot more tolerable on their earlier releases (this is where all the "good" songs linked on this page come from) before they started using those wretched eight string guitars.
What do you think about Iconoclast?
- Thread starter clafalc
- Start date
Exactly this. Also, they were a lot more tolerable on their earlier releases (this is where all the "good" songs linked on this page come from) before they started using those wretched eight string guitars.
Postulate
Have a nice day! :)
- Jul 17, 2008
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At all is an exaggeration. I'd bet my left testicle what they were fans of before they "pioneered" their style. Unless you're going to make the criteria for one band sounding like another arbitrarily narrow, in which case, Dragonforce are innovative too.
Look, first of all, I have no life and have wasted more time listening to music "weird-ass meters" than most people would feel comfortable admitting in public. So if this is some suggestion that I can't swallow dissonance, or shifting time signatures, or need jazz influence to enjoy wankity-wank metal (which I don't hear in Thought Industry anyway), then I'm just going to stop you right there. Messhugah's rhythms are not as "crazy" as everyone says they are. Their songs are relatively static and monotonous compared to the other bands I mentioned. The constant chuggity chug and triggered drums gets immediately tiring. For an example of how to use "weird-ass meters" to form a rhythmic skeleton of a song in an interesting way, look at something like "Ronde" off of Univers Zero's debut. How's that for metal?
Yes, in fact, you do.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Weird? Try ephel duath.
Also, appeals to authority to validate opinion, particularly rolling stone... Fail.
Also, appeals to authority to validate opinion, particularly rolling stone... Fail.
Sauna
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- Mar 30, 2010
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Regardless of whether "at all" is an exaggeration or not, there is a clear difference and we both hear it. As for them being fans of the stuff you mentioned, they probably are.
Allright, I can appreciate that you find no fault in Meshuggah in terms of the style of their music (which was your point here if I understood it properly), but rather think that they just plain suck. I don't mind that. I'm not trying to make anyone like the band, I just have a problem with the way you claim they aren't/weren't original and haven't had any influence on metal.
No, you don't. The Rolling Stone might not be that much of an authority on metal, but they tend to know what they're talking about. Making that list definitely holds merit.
I would be a failure to try and validate an opinion by appealing to an authority, but that's not the case here. Either Meshuggah is influental or isn't. It's not a matter of opinion. I'm just trying to convince a guy that they are.
Magazines like The Rolling Stone usually base their claims on what's influental by interviewing various musicians on the subject. That's why I though it would be a good thing to point out.
Postulate
Have a nice day! :)
- Jul 17, 2008
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Let me back up a bit and ask where this list is...I'm looking for it and I see a reader's poll, but that looks to be just a popularity thing and doesn't include Messhuggah?
Anyways, I don't really trust Rolling Stone's opinions. If we're talking Fates Warning and Dream Theater, who is going to make the list (indeed, Dream Theater did in that reader's poll, #2). And yet that doesn't show that DT is more original than FW - just that DT is (a) more popular and (b) imitated by more second-tier bands in the genre. I think it would be hard to make an argument that DT is more original or foundational to prog metal than FW. Popularity and innovation often coincide with genre founders, but not always.
Well, I said they weren't original, not that they weren't influential. Many influential bands aren't original at all.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
_Gentleman of_the Snow_
Prog' Drummer
^ Wait, are you saying that I won't have a 6-pack in a week if I follow this article I just read?...
I'm with Postulate here. The question is not whether they are pioneers of modern shuggah-shuggah metal or not. The question is: is that a good thing (musically speaking)?
I'm not someone who favors said trend in metal music and, naturally, whoever pioneered it. I much prefer the older days. (the same applies to pop and rap/hip hop, though I very rarely approach those)
Those were the good ol' days... *smokes pipe*
_Gentleman of_the Snow_
Prog' Drummer
I find Meshuggah to be pretty original. I own Chaosphere... I made the mistake of listening to it with headphones when I went to bed one night. I think I was temporarily mentally insane when I woke up the next day.
I can find joy out of listening to them for a very short period. I'd rather a band use their techniques in a song, but not actually BE the song. SX's Lords of Chaos is a great use of it, IMO.
I can find joy out of listening to them for a very short period. I'd rather a band use their techniques in a song, but not actually BE the song. SX's Lords of Chaos is a great use of it, IMO.
Detective Clarence Beauregard
Dehumanized
Nice. Why can't all Meshuggah sound like this?! I loved the lack of vocals. In fact, I could appreciate their heavy, dissonant stuff more if there were no vocals.
Question - does Meshuggah have (or even need) a bass player if they have two 8-string guitars? What does the bass player play, a 7-string bass? Can the human ear even discern a F0?
Sauna
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You know, I couldn't trace the original article anymore either. It's probably too old. All I managed to find were mentions of it without links or mentions of it with links to other articles that mention it.
I agree with the second sentence. However, I still argue that Meshuggah was unique enough when Destroy Erase Improve came out to be called original.
It's a 5-string bass with a weird, 8-string guitarish tone. It's probably meant to make that sickly overall tone even thicker.
Bass kicks in at around 1:10.
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Progbass
Member
If they play from F, the bass plays in same octave. So yea u can't really hear it.
The main problem I have with Meshuggah and pretty much all of their disciples is that their idea of whacky and polymetric rhythms mostly involves half-time beats on a china symbol and the bass drum in sync with random open notes on a heavily downtuned guitar. I'm either too smart or too stupid to get what's so intricate about this style of music. King Crimson, Tool, Watchtower or some of the older, less brootal math rock/metal bands out there, that's some polymetric stuff I get and enjoy.
If you're going to use an 8 string guitar, you might as well just get an electric harp and be done with it.
I find this whole race of over-compression/who has the heaviest most "in your face" tone/who has the most strings in his guitar to be silly and unmusical.
I find this whole race of over-compression/who has the heaviest most "in your face" tone/who has the most strings in his guitar to be silly and unmusical.
Detective Clarence Beauregard
Dehumanized
Well it's a good thing they at least have a bass player. Can't say I care for his style, tone, or... anything, really. I take it that in the actual songs he doesn't stand out too much?
If the bass can't get into a lower octave than the guitars, what is the point of even having a bass at all? I guess that was my point to begin with.
Symphony X plays polymetric stuff like that all the time. Granted, it's not always in half-time, the cymbal used isn't always the china, the guitar isn't heavily downtuned, and the notes aren't random, but still. Check out The Eyes of Medusa, Fallen, or Children of a Faceless God for examples. I love that style.
I don't like it, either. I'm also willing to bet that many of these types don't actually know the fundamentals of music at all.
_Gentleman of_the Snow_
Prog' Drummer
If the bass is playing in the same octave as the guitars, there really is no difference between the two. Bass is pointless in this scenario.
More power to you, I just don't think it makes for an interesting listen. My idea of a polymeter involves shifting accents of guitar riffs/drum patterns etc. against each other as to creative an interesting groove.
Let's take Tool's "Lateralus"... there's one part in the song where the bass plays in 6/8, the hi-hat in 5/8 and the basedrum in some time signature I just can't seem to figure out. In Canvas Solaris' "Conveyance Of Flux", there's this bit with a bass line and basic drum pattern in 4/4, but they're superposed with a hi-hat pattern in 9/8, which is really whacky. And of course we all know about Symphony X's "The Accolade".
On the other hand, Meshuggah-style polymeters usually consist of the basedrum playing along with a complex riff, but everything else playing a moronic half-time or quarter note pattern without any discernable relationship between the individual parts. There's no groove or interest to be had in there for me.
(That being said, I kinda like the Meshuggah bit in "The Lords Of Chaos", because it's short, conveys the intensity of the song well and SX don't use that motif in every other song.)
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