What do you think about Iconoclast?

[Postulate]

I dunno, I've pretty much lost interest in all the music I've listened to in the past over the last half year or so. I used to listen to Awaken the Guardian every day, but I haven't in forever. Most days I won't even listen to any music, anymore - something that would never happen about a year ago. The magic is gone.

In the face of that, sometimes listening to increasingly inaccessible music is a refuge for me, because I feel interested again by something new and challenging. So I'm beginning to think that lack of accessibility can be a good thing in itself, depending on tge circumstances. Obvious music is boring.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

I guess as far as music goes, any opinion you make there will always be someone able to invalidate it.

Neither of those things was the basis upon which I said what I said.

But if you're gonna talk about "enjoyability" as the standard, well then, Justing Bieber is successful because many people buy his stuff because they enjoy it. So sure, the (artistic, technical, lyrical, etc) content of the music "bears no fixed relevance on how enjoyable the music is", nobody is arguing that. Now far be it from me to seriously judge what people enjoy, but the fact remains:

1) Enjoyability (while there is nothing wrong with it/shouldn't be judged) is no standard itself. Bieber is enjoyed by FAR more than Stravinsky is, but that neither makes Stravinsky any less of a genius than he is nor make Bieber a genius. Implying so would be just as silly as claiming virtuosity causes musical genius.
2) It's not the fact that good music must be non-mainstream. It's that the majority of people today tend to enjoy stuff that is of inferior musical maturity. Based on that fact, it is natural that I have negative feelings about something that I deem as leaning toward the generic side or being targeted to a broader audience -something you are absolutely free to disagree with without having to invalidate my reason behind it (or rather your perception thereof).

Couldn't have said it better myself.

^ I also agree with Postulate, though I still listen to music every day, and I can usually find something to enjoy (I buy a lot of CDs). Mainstream is useless to me because I find almost nothing to enjoy about it.

Like the others have said before me, Iconoclast isn't really prog, and that actually bother me.
There are a ton of metal bands doing metal... but Prog is losing one of the greats

One problem I have with Iconoclast is that it doesn't do anything particularly well; every element is just between okay and good (save for the lyrics).

I find a lot of great bands are on a huge decline as of late.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I dunno, I've pretty much lost interest in all the music I've listened to in the past over the last half year or so. I used to listen to Awaken the Guardian every day, but I haven't in forever. Most days I won't even listen to any music, anymore - something that would never happen about a year ago. The magic is gone.

In the face of that, sometimes listening to increasingly inaccessible music is a refuge for me, because I feel interested again by something new and challenging. So I'm beginning to think that lack of accessibility can be a good thing in itself, depending on tge circumstances. Obvious music is boring.

I'll agree to this on one condition: that you accept that accessibility is a perspective.

 

[Postulate]

I'll agree to this on one condition: that you accept that accessibility is a perspective.

Yeah, probably. I admit that I find many kinds of popular music "inaccessible" to me because I was never raised up on them. (In fact you hear that a lot with people who "don't like rap and country")

But I find myself listening more and more to things that I thought were pretentious and stupid a few years ago.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I find a lot of great bands are on a huge decline as of late.

Me too just like the 80s...

We're lucky that there is now alternitive solutions because of these computers...

What did you think of Dark Suns Orange?

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

Obvious music is boring.

I see it this way, too. It's one of the reasons why I love unusual (and some may call complex) song structures.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

What did you think of Dark Suns Orange?

I haven't listened yet, but you can bet that it's on top of my list for my next CD cart. I loved Grave Human.
I also notice that Alias Eye has a new album out... didn't know it was coming, but glad I know now. I love Alias Eye!

The new "After" and "Arena" albums were disappointing (Arena more-so). On second listen, "After" was more interesting... still not in the same league as their album "Hideout"...yet. It's odd, because they collaborated with one of my favourite bands, Pineapple Thief, while making it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I see it this way, too. It's one of the reasons why I love unusual (and some may call complex) song structures.

Complex may be obvious. See Dream Theater.

I agree that unusual, or perhaps better, unexpected, is good.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Complex may be obvious. See Dream Theater.

I agree that unusual, or perhaps better, unexpected, is good.

Unexpected is real good I like all their discs....

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

Complex may be obvious. See Dream Theater.

It depends. I don't really think DT's song structures are that complex; they're usually just verse-chorus scenarios with the brief musical interlude that would be in most songs extended to a ridiculous time.

I was referring to songs like Communion and the Oracle or Through the Looking Glass. They're long, complex, and constantly winding.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Sigh, maybe I should use a different example since there are inexplicably still Dream Theater fans in existence.

"Complex" music can still be boring and obvious. You listen to enough prog, and see if you don't agree. It truly is a perspective thing.

 

[Sauna]

Using DT as an example of uninspired/technical but predictable prog is both right and wrong. Yes, that's what their music mostly is these days, but it wasn't so in the early 90's. Images & Words and Awake are fucking awesome. There's nothing they can do to un-make a fan of theirs after putting out such albums.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Not true, they've unmade me a fan. But I won't deny those albums are pretty solidly cool.

 

[Wander]

I started listening to Iconoclast again today. Not gonna really make comparisons to past albums as I haven't listened to them either in many months.

I still think that the title song is really cool. But man, it goes downhill with the next few songs. Dehumanized especially is just plain bad iyam (especially the verses).

It doesn't really pick up until Children of the Faceless God (although neither Bastards of the Machine or Heretic are quite Dehumanized level of bad), which is a solid song. When All is Lost is pretty good. I kinda get the argument that with it they're just trying to re-create some of the past Symphony X classics without really bringing new elements to play, but for what it is, it's still good.

But as a fan of the band, it really is quite a sad affair when you have listened to the first disc (7 tracks) and only like 3 of the songs. Time-wise they take up just above 50% of the material so my initial reaction of the album being half-good and half-not-so-much was quite literally correct. The worst thing is that I don't really much feel like listening to the 2nd disc now. Electric Messiah just started and it's a decent metal song (likely better than the tracks 2-5 on the first disc), but a sense of "didn't I hear this kind of thing a while ago already" is in the air now.

Pretty much a 3/5 album as a whole. Not in my top 20 of last year. Nothing really weird about it tbh. Just an ok album from a good band that passed their peak over 10 years ago.

 

[Sauna]

I like every single song on Iconoclast and consider Dehumanized to be one of the strongest ones, say what you will. Riffs are awesome, Russell sounds awesome, solo is beyond awesome.

Not true, they've unmade me a fan. But I won't deny those albums are pretty solidly cool.

Damn, I was supposed to write "to un-make me a fan of theirs" but apparently fumbled. My bad.

 

[Wander]

Dehumanized has good parts, but that doesn't change the fact that the core (verses and chorus) are bad and dumb.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

I actually like Dehumanized. I consider it to be one of the six or so tracks that make up the "good but not nearly as great as their older stuff" half of the album. The verses get a little bit too nu-Russell for me at times, but at least the music has a cool groove to it. I absolutely love the main bluesy polymetric riff.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

I like every single song on Iconoclast and consider Dehumanized to be one of the strongest ones, say what you will. Riffs are awesome, Russell sounds awesome, solo is beyond awesome.



Damn, I was supposed to write "to un-make me a fan of theirs" but apparently fumbled. My bad.

Thank you, Sir! I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Prismatic Sphere]

The next time I see Romeo, I'm gonna put masking tape on his guitar case with the written words, "Fuck the new fans. Play Prog."

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

The next time I see Romeo, I'm gonna put masking tape on his guitar case with the written words, "Fuck the new fans. Play Prog."

I'll be your lookout man.