What makes a band "OLD SCHOOL"?

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Since we have a good collection of philosophical threads starting here on UMOS, I thought I'd start another one. The question is, what is it exactly that makes old school metal...well, old school. And I'm not talking about 80s bands because they are automatically old school. I'm talking NEW bands that we tend to describe as old school. What are the defining features of the musical elements?

In regard to guitars, I feel that old school metal is more composed of distinctive riffs and hooks, rather than repetitive chugging of the same note that's a staple of many of today's big bands (in multiple genres).

The drumming is usually more mid-tempo, although Helloween changed that with the Keeper albums, and really Maiden before them with the galloping double-bass drumming on Powerslave and Seventh Son.

One of the most telltale elements for me is the singer. Back in the 70s and 80s, even the rough singers delivered with melody and emotion (Bon Scott, Brian Johnson, James Hetfield, Dave Mustaine, etc). If you didn't have a good singer/vocalist, you probably didn't make it in the business. Even alot the thrash bands had melodic vocalists (Overkill, Exodus, Flotsam, Anthrax, etc).

Today the growling/screaming seems to be the style of choice for most metal genres, and even the popular hard rock scene (which has strong "musical" elements of old school hard rock) like Three Doors Down, Monster Magnet and Matchbox Twenty don't really have true singers. It's more like they just vocalize in their normal voice with very little catchy melodies or any emotion other than angst.

Your thoughts, observations or opinions?

 

[Fangface]

In the guitar department I'd mention the standard tuning, or at least not too downtuned. Not that it's a rule either.

Even more subjective, to my mind Old School sometimes means not relying heavily on the production but on the songs first. So many "modern" bands hide their lack of songwriting skills behind a wall a sound these days, even if there's nothing wrong in itself with having a modern production when it's well done.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Yeah, I miss those CRUNCHING guitar riffs of the old days. I almost included a paragraph about de-tuning being so popular. I killed it because I was hoping someone more instrumentally-inclined (like a guitar player) could expand on that whole deal.

I am HUGE into production, it means everything to me. But you are right Fang, there are a ton of bands (mostly prog) that have killer production with only mediocre songwriting. Great production can make a good band sound great. Of course, I prefer both...great songwriting and great production!

NP: Wuthering Heights - To Travel For Evermore

 

[Wyvern]

To be old school a band had to be saw by Hawk in his youth

Nah, seriously has to do with the structure of the songs not as much in composition but in the way is played. The structure of the guitars, the rythm section and the vocals has to reminescence the way metal was played towards the end of the 70's and the early 80's IMO.

In general terms is difficult to me to explain is more a matter of perception. I look at bands like Wolf, Made Of Iron, Superchrist, Icarus Witch, Well Of Souls and they all retain the spirit of true old school in my ears.

NP: Annihilator - 'Ligeia'

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

In general terms is difficult to me to explain is more a matter of perception. I look at bands like Wolf, Made Of Iron, Superchrist, Icarus Witch, Well Of Souls and they all retain the spirit of true old school in my ears.

Bands like Wolf and Icarus Witch INTENTIONALLY sound like old school though. That's all fine and dandy. But I immediately think about bands who are taking it one step forward: Astral Doors, Tad Morose, (Morgana) Lefay, Mob Rules, Cage, etc.

What are they doing that makes them "old school"? Again, this discussion is as much philosophical as it is technical. Feed your minds...

 

[Wyvern]

Bands like Wolf and Icarus Witch INTENTIONALLY sound like old school though. That's all fine and dandy. But I immediately think about bands who are taking it one step forward: Astral Doors

I forgot Astral Doors at the time of my post, nevertheless I don't relate them totally to old school in my mind, like I said is a matter or personal perception. I think about bands like Crystal Ball, Highland Glory, Steel Prophet, Taraxacum that had roots deep into OS, still they don't sound totally like and old band, you know what I mean?

 

[JonnyD]

Q:what is it exactly that makes old school metal...well, old school?
A:Attitude

 

[carnut]

Q:what is it exactly that makes old school metal...well, old school?
A:Attitude

Haha,you put it there in one word while I was compiling a 3 page explanation

 

[JonnyD]

Haha,you put it there in one word while I was compiling a 3 page explanation

hehehe yeah it was the only answer to his actual question I could think of

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I forgot Astral Doors at the time of my post, nevertheless I don't relate them totally to old school in my mind, like I said is a matter or personal perception. I think about bands like Crystal Ball, Highland Glory, Steel Prophet, Taraxacum that had roots deep into OS, still they don't sound totally like and old band, you know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly what I was talking about. These bands remind you of the old 80s albums, but there's something different about it too. Like it's advanced a step but still focused on the songwriting itself. Maybe played a little bit faster, and obviously the production is much better.

Q:what is it exactly that makes old school metal...well, old school?
A:Attitude

Leave it to JD, a man of few words, to sum it up in only one! Damn it, man, I was hoping for lengthier discussion! Maybe something more detailed...

 

[JonnyD]

Leave it to JD, a man of few words, to sum it up in only one! Damn it, man, I was hoping for lengthier discussion! Maybe something more detailed...

hahaha sorry my friend! its just that how I saw the question that was the only answer .... I will try to come up with some long opus on the subject if you would like

 

[Wheezer]

Johnny pretty much nailed it. Attitude. And Fang with the guitar tone. A coupla other simple things though:

Solos! Screw Metallica and their artsy fartsy idea that solos are past their prime.

Suggestive lyrics. Rather than coming right out and saying "I screwed that girl" etc. the lyrics used to use code words and suggestion to get the point across. Not that it was less naughty, just more clever. Maybe that comes from the standpoint of a teenager feeling like he was getting one over on his parents. KISS and Aerosmith were quite good at it. Zep too. Aerosmith and Zep borrowed it from Blues though, I think.

 

[metal paddy]

venom they are old school my friend

 

[Lost and Found Records USA]

TALENT...

Any tom dick or harry can get a record deal these days, and cant play their way out of a wet paper bag.

Oh yea, one other thing..If your band DOESNT have a DJ scratching, you might be old school..I still am baffled how you can be called a metal band if your band's bio has "DJ Dipshit" as a member...

Wheezer, amen my friend to your solo comment. Where did the guitar solo go????

Just for fun folks, if you have any Toxik albums laying around, go take a listen to Josh Christians guitarwork on those...

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

hahaha sorry my friend! its just that how I saw the question that was the only answer .... I will try to come up with some long opus on the subject if you would like

Nah, I wouldn't want you to use up your monthly word allotment only halfway through. You just rest your mind buddy, I know that one word took alot outta ya!

Solos! Screw Metallica and their artsy fartsy idea that solos are past their prime.

Abso-fucking-lutely! When I heard Lars say that on Some Kind of Monster, I nearly threw the remote at the tv screen. What a dickhead. I didn't have alot of respect for him going into that movie and his idiotic point of view erased what was left. I did gain a lot of respect for Kirk Hammet though. He seldom speaks up in that movie, but he sure let Lars have it on that one! Not only do I believe that guitar solos are an intricate part of heavy metal (and all rock-n-roll), but my favorite music often has little solos scattered throughout each song. Micheal Schenker is especially good at this, tossing in cool little guitar licks here and there to fill dead spots.

I'm with you on the rap thing too, LFR, it has no place in true metal IMO. uke:

 

[JonnyD]

Nah, I wouldn't want you to use up your monthly word allotment only halfway through. You just rest your mind buddy, I know that one word took alot outta ya!

Wise Ass

 

[Wyvern]

Wheezer, amen my friend to your solo comment. Where did the guitar solo go????

Morever, where the quality solo went? I mean yes you have solos today but they seldom impact me or move me the way the old solos did, that also may happens because I grew up with the classic soloing.

In anycase I do miss the passion of Blackmore, Iommi, Roeser, Tipton, Gorham, etc in newer bands.

 

[SickBoy]

Morever, where the quality solo went? I mean yes you have solos today but they seldom impact me or move me the way the old solos did, that also may happens because I grew up with the classic soloing.

In anycase I do miss the passion of Blackmore, Iommi, Roeser, Tipton, Gorham, etc in newer bands.

I think it's got to do with the overly technical playing that seemingly everyone, including my kid neighbor and his dog, seem to be into.
I suppose in the 70s and 80s most of the people were self taught and relied more on their ears than on prelearnt scales and whatnot. The development of "shredding" guitar in 80s and especially internet for the last few years considerably increased the number of technical players (just because they were more easily exposed to various programmes to advance the technique) and the players with feeling somehow got drowned in that flood...

Not that every technical player has to be emotionless and unimaginative (take Jeff Loomis for example...), but I feel most of them are and they sound as if they just repeat their overdone exercises in their solos, just connecting the various ones in the right keys. Too much mathematics going as opposed to maybe less precise, but more exciting and passionate playing of the old league you named. Let's not forget Gary Moore, in his playing you can clearly feel when he's on fire or when he goes 100% emotional...

 

[Battles_in_the_north]

I would say its the way of the recording has been done when you listen to skid row or wasp or motley crue then listen to there newer suff you noticed the recording is not as good but still its gives it that great sound

 

[Wyvern]

I think it's got to do with the overly technical playing that seemingly everyone, including my kid neighbor and his dog, seem to be into.
I suppose in the 70s and 80s most of the people were self taught and relied more on their ears than on prelearnt scales and whatnot. The development of "shredding" guitar in 80s and especially internet for the last few years considerably increased the number of technical players (just because they were more easily exposed to various programmes to advance the technique) and the players with feeling somehow got drowned in that flood...

That may be, still you can hear nice "old-style" solos in modern bands as for example in Stimulans - 'No Words'

I believe is all about beliefs and attitude, technicality can be achieved with practice, but the fire you mentioned it comes from your heart and soul...and that's old school!