What makes a band "OLD SCHOOL"?

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

The development of "shredding" guitar in 80s and especially internet for the last few years considerably increased the number of technical players (just because they were more easily exposed to various programmes to advance the technique) and the players with feeling somehow got drowned in that flood...

Not that every technical player has to be emotionless and unimaginative (take Jeff Loomis for example...), but I feel most of them are and they sound as if they just repeat their overdone exercises in their solos, just connecting the various ones in the right keys. Too much mathematics going as opposed to maybe less precise, but more exciting and passionate playing of the old league you named. Let's not forget Gary Moore, in his playing you can clearly feel when he's on fire or when he goes 100% emotional...

Awesome post and dead on IMO. I really like alot of the prog metal stuff, but so many of the solos are lacking in emotion. Sickboy said it best, it's too damn MATHEMATICAL. Music should be emotion first, technicality second. It can be done and I'll second his vote for Gary Moore as an example. That man can absolutely SHRED when he wants to, or he can lay down a solo that'll bring tears to your eyes.

I do miss the passion of Blackmore, Iommi, Roeser, Tipton, Gorham, etc in newer bands.

Indeed, Wyv, nice to see you mention Buck Dharma as he is also one of my faves. You missed Schenker though.

NP: Gary Moore - The Early Years (in honor of Sickboy's post!)

 

[SickBoy]

That may be, still you can hear nice "old-style" solos in modern bands as for example in Stimulans - 'No Words'

You old teaser!
That said, we HAVE to make our solos as melodical as possible, since we really lack in the technical department...

NP: Gary Moore - The Early Years (in honor of Sickboy's post!)

Geez, who would think a single name mention would stir so much emotions!

NP: Thin Lizzy - Waiting For An Alibi

 

[Wheezer]

I think it's got to do with the overly technical playing that seemingly everyone, including my kid neighbor and his dog, seem to be into.
I suppose in the 70s and 80s most of the people were self taught and relied more on their ears than on prelearnt scales and whatnot. The development of "shredding" guitar in 80s and especially internet for the last few years considerably increased the number of technical players (just because they were more easily exposed to various programmes to advance the technique) and the players with feeling somehow got drowned in that flood...

Not that every technical player has to be emotionless and unimaginative (take Jeff Loomis for example...), but I feel most of them are and they sound as if they just repeat their overdone exercises in their solos, just connecting the various ones in the right keys. Too much mathematics going as opposed to maybe less precise, but more exciting and passionate playing of the old league you named. Let's not forget Gary Moore, in his playing you can clearly feel when he's on fire or when he goes 100% emotional...

Wow! Excellent post!

Who started the trend towards the technical/shred? Rhoads? His playing seems to come from a more classical background. Malmsteen? His background seems to be classical as well but leans more towards shred. I honestly don't know and and I'm curious what others would think.

 

[Wyvern]

You old teaser!
That said, we HAVE to make our solos as melodical as possible, since we really lack in the technical department...

NP: Thin Lizzy - Waiting For An Alibi

Nonsense. Who cares about shredding when there's passion around? I rather wish to be able to play a solo like in 'No Words' than to musical masturbate with a 10 minute shredding abuse

I like Malmsteen, maybe because I started when it was novelty. I like Satriani, Vai, MacAlpine, Brooks, Murphy, but when I like them the most it's when passion strikes over technicality.

Please check any really technical modern guitar player with one hell of a shredding technique, then go and listen to David Gilmour solo in 'Confortably Numb' or 'Dogs', then you'll see my point (I hope).

 

[SickBoy]

Who started the trend towards the technical/shred? Rhoads? His playing seems to come from a more classical background. Malmsteen? His background seems to be classical as well but leans more towards shred. I honestly don't know and and I'm curious what others would think.

I think all of the "80s shredders" started the trend, but very likely without any intent... These guys somehow developed great techniques for fast AND accurate playing on electric guitar and passed on their knowledge to others. As you know, information spreads exponentially, so it's no wonder that seemingly everybody "shreds" nowadays.
I consider mere shredding as pure athletics, supposedly anyone with a bit of musical talent and lots of effort can achieve that, but there's one single thing no one can learn or adopt: musical imagination.
And THAT thing is the one that separates greats from uninteresting guys...

Nonsense. Who cares about shredding when there's passion around? I rather wish to be able to play a solo like in 'No Words' than to musical masturbate with a 10 minute shredding abuse

Well, I'd still like to be able to do some more complicated lick.
But all the blame's on my laziness to sit and practice, so...

Please check any really technical modern guitar player with one hell of a shredding technique, then go and listen to David Gilmour solo in 'Confortably Numb' or 'Dogs', then you'll see my point (I hope).

Dave Gilmour is my favorite proof in this kind of discussions...
A player built of pure emotion and expressiveness!

 

[Fangface]

Wow! Excellent post!

Who started the trend towards the technical/shred? Rhoads? His playing seems to come from a more classical background. Malmsteen? His background seems to be classical as well but leans more towards shred. I honestly don't know and and I'm curious what others would think.

Maybe Eddie Van Halen, I think he influenced lots of young guitarists of that time to shred (even though he wasn't into the classical thing).
Not to forget Ritchie Blackmore and Uli Jon Roth for the classical influences a few years before him

 

[SickBoy]

Maybe Eddie Van Halen, I think he influenced lots of young guitarists of that time to shred (even though he wasn't into the classical thing).

I wouldn't necessarily associate shredding with neoclassics...

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

l wouldn't necessarily associate shredding with neoclassicalists either. Malmsteen was really just an extention of Blackmore except he tilted the ship heavily in favor of shredding with just the occasional slower, more emotive, solos. I think Fang may be onto something though. EVH may have been the one guitar player to start the trend. Back in the day, my friends and I described Eddie's playing as "squeek, squawk, diddle-daddle". His style was more calculated, mechanical, mathematical. And Lord knows he influenced a sea of wanna-be guitarists back in the 80s.

 

[Fangface]

I wouldn't necessarily associate shredding with neoclassics...

Yup I don't associate shredding with neoclassics either, but we were previously talking about the classical influences, that's why I added "even though EVH wasn't into neoclassics"

 

[Bryant]

What makes a band "oldschool" is simply thye listener.

I have made Tad Morose posts here before..... I think that band got oldschool "love".... why ? Symphony X ? Many here know them. Are they oldschool ? Their guitarist sounds like old Yngwie and their vocalist a wanna be Paul Rogers (very oldschool.) Still, they incorporate a bunch of keyboards........ hmmmm so did Rush.
"Oldschool" is in the ear of the beholder, but when we find newer music we enjoy that gives us that oldschool vibe, it is up to us to enlighten ............


What the hell am I saying ? I all of a sudden felt like I was trying to be buddha or something. You fuckers need to say........ Bryant you aren't that smart dude. Make a post and chill out.....


Bryant

 

[Hawk]

Good to have you back Bro'

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

Cohesiveness. The song came first, the album came first, the show came first. The intention was the career and longevity. That's what I saw in bands like Priest, Maiden, and Scorpions. The package included all three of those elements. No one ever bought an album or saw the live show and felt ripped off. That's why they've lasted as long as they have. Because they didn't take the fans for granted.

 

[Wyvern]

Because they didn't take the fans for granted.

I don't know if that it's enterily true on a major factor, but I do like the concept a lot. Nver take the fans for granted, work hard to keep them, show them respect and give them waht they want, they will in return give you loyalty, respect and their money

I guess many bands forgot these and looked only for the $ in the end

 

[SickBoy]

I wan't that Flying V that KK plays on this picture.
And I want it NOOOOW...