What Opeth Means by "Watershed"

[Whisper and Weep]

Complete fail on both your parts calling it underwhelming and "ripping off" GR.. I laughed when I read that.
First of all if you didnt notice.. theres a lot more going on with WS. More sudden stops and changes as well as a lot more progression as it is by far the most progressive thing theyve recorded. Burden and Heir Apparent single handedly rape anything on GR as that album was flawed by having the cheesiest keyboard lines, various weak songs and an overproduced sound in general.. TGC for example .. I will admit though that Baying is a great song in its own right but its still the only song upon hours of listening that I thoroughly enjoy.

Per's contributions on GR are horrible and I had doubts about this one but he truly outdoes himself on Watershed adding a new element to Opeths style in.. without him this album would not be possible. The atmosphere and momentum he brings is breathtaking. To say this is less talently written is completely unbiased and down right stupid... the technicality and transitions as well as the atmosphere put that of GR to shame. Some of it is truly a throwback to the BWP days and even some MR. How can you even compare one song to Atonement or the horrid dragging ending of Harlequin Forest.

This is by no means a bad record or a bad Opeth record for that matter.. its up there with BWP and MAYH so listen again and stop whining that theyre evolving, that they wont go back to the old days and that theyre going mainstream. Mikes clean vocals are more passionate than ever if you actually listen... this albums gold.

 

[wut wut]

Can we stop comparing old and new songs, pretending that we're making factual, indisputable statements?

Ghost Reveries is heavily flawed? Explain to me how that's a fact.

Ghost Reveries has cheesy keys? How is this a fact?

STFU, and that goes to the pro-Watershed people AND the anti-Watershed people.

 

[DEMIgOD]

guyz the new albom doesnt come out until the 3rd of june. Unless you all work for magazines i dont know how one could have even listened to the entire record. of the 3 songs (2 of which are studio, one is live) iv heard from watershed it sounds fantastic.

 

[Hoahmaru]

goddamn.. I didnt know so many morons could exist much less be opeth fans...

 

[MegaMoose]

Well the new material sounds pretty stripped down. Maybe its a term to describe their new direction musically.

Have you even listened to Watershed? Like, at all?

 

[OpethAllenPoe]

Complete fail on both your parts calling it underwhelming and "ripping off" GR.. I laughed when I read that.
First of all if you didnt notice.. theres a lot more going on with WS. More sudden stops and changes as well as a lot more progression as it is by far the most progressive thing theyve recorded. Burden and Heir Apparent single handedly rape anything on GR as that album was flawed by having the cheesiest keyboard lines, various weak songs and an overproduced sound in general.. TGC for example .. I will admit though that Baying is a great song in its own right but its still the only song upon hours of listening that I thoroughly enjoy.

Per's contributions on GR are horrible and I had doubts about this one but he truly outdoes himself on Watershed adding a new element to Opeths style in.. without him this album would not be possible. The atmosphere and momentum he brings is breathtaking. To say this is less talently written is completely unbiased and down right stupid... the technicality and transitions as well as the atmosphere put that of GR to shame. Some of it is truly a throwback to the BWP days and even some MR. How can you even compare one song to Atonement or the horrid dragging ending of Harlequin Forest.

This is by no means a bad record or a bad Opeth record for that matter.. its up there with BWP and MAYH so listen again and stop whining that theyre evolving, that they wont go back to the old days and that theyre going mainstream. Mikes clean vocals are more passionate than ever if you actually listen... this albums gold.

I agree with you on every aspect of your post.

 

[Markitos`s apprentices]

a significative change in opeth's history

 

[EternalDamnation06]

Theres such diffrence between the heavy and mellow tracks. The sound has been seperated. Its either heavy or soft. Unlike past records where they combined the elements in nearly every song.

 

[sleepwalker08]

Am I missing something? Most of you are bitching about this album and none of you have heard it in its entirety. After June 3rd, you may bitch. You can't keep saying the're moving away from growls when you've only heard 2 fucking songs, or 3 if you want to count heir apparent, which growls throughout. Going mainstream? Again you're basing that on 2 fucking songs. You are the same fucks that will be on here June 4th posting how great the album is!

 

[isolation_years]

ive only heard two songs, and i dont think its moving away from gorwls at all, it sounds like opeth too me, songs with growls, and songs without . not to make it seem that simple but really? i mean did anyone hear hours of wealth and go opeths moving away from growls, did anyone hear benighted or face of melinda and think that? theyve always done songs without growls, sometimes more than one on an album, doesnt mean anything will change(except in the natural progression from album to album)

 

[burntoast]

Am I missing something?

Yes, you are.

 

[Black Session]

This album seems to be as much a watershed than all the other ones have been to be honest. But like I said before, might be that this one collects elements from everything they did before (with obvious references) and adds totally new elements that show the way to a new future, hence the watershed. A sort of goodbye and opening to a complete turn for Opeth Mark III (with the new members).
This one might turn out to be their best ever, I'm loving it more everytime I hear it. Could never imagine there would an album that would rival with Deliverance for me (my favourite up till now).

 

[Whisper and Weep]

Can we stop comparing old and new songs, pretending that we're making factual, indisputable statements?

Ghost Reveries is heavily flawed? Explain to me how that's a fact.

Ghost Reveries has cheesy keys? How is this a fact?

STFU, and that goes to the pro-Watershed people AND the anti-Watershed people.

Lol your telling me to stfu.. thats cool

But anyways let me tell you how GR is flawed. First of all.. the songs drag on for too long.. each and every song needs to be stripped down like 3 minutes. Opeth albums in the past have parts that have dragged but are far mroe interesting because the instruments themselves evolve throughout the progression.. one of Opeth's trademarks.. which is heavily apparent in many Opeth songs but the outro of HA is a fine example of this sound. Notice how epic it is when the keyboard just gradually gets louder and louder until it seamlessly blends together with all of the other instruments.

Per's keyboard was is terribly cheesy.. did you listen to the beginning of Beneath the Mire... if you like the sounds he adds to the first minute of that song than you should be playing video games instead of listening to music. At other times he simply overpowers the other instruments of the band which gets completely annoying.

Now I wasnt directing my opinion to this noob but like all others he had to get involved. GR infact was a more mainstream approach to the old Opeth formula that resulted in an awkward and average record. Watershed marks the new direction their taking with their sound.. It can be called mark 3 as black session orchestral instruments (such as oboes.)

PS: Dont even say that The Lotus Eater's keyboard break 3/4 into the song sounds like a video game. Its called fusion and its been around longer than I or half the people on this forum have been alive for.

PPS: Terribly sorry for making posts regarding to leaks.. but this album shits on GR and is far from being a bad album.. Opeth is by far my favorite band and it gets me upset when I see such posts.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

I'm reading all this, and the only question that comes to my mind is : what the hell is that? I never thought we could argue so much for tastes. Personnally, I think Opeth's quality is decreasing as they release new albums (Still Life, Blackwater Park and Deliverance being the bests). I mean, they cannot forever make perfect albums like Blackwater Park. It's not possible. I really expected something worst (or just too different) from them. That's what I had. The growls are missing... because Mike's growls are somehow emotive. I don't think he had to sing clean so much. It only reminds me of Damnation. I thought I'd get something more aggressive. I don't care if it is more progressive or more metul, I just wanted to like it a little more. In any ways, this is all opinion. Listen to Watershed a couple of time (when it'll be released) and I'm sure you'll love something, and you'll appreciate it. For those who already like it, try to accept that some people may not love their new style and this is comprehensive. Don't say to anyone "you're not a real Opeth fan", please. This is anonnying. Peace everyone.

 

[yellowsnow]

Whisper and Weep hit the nail on the head here.

Watershed isn't their best, but better than GR, Deliverance, Damnation and possibly Orchid. And I love all of those albums to death.

 

[isolation_years]

i dunno, i cant really \choose a favorite album, and im always nervous when a new album comes out you know? will it be as good as the last one, will this be their undoing, but to be honest, everything theyve put out i love, and this new album(at least the two songs ive heard) is no exception, i dont see how someone who calls themself an opeth fan could shit on them so much like some people are. i mean, ive shit on albums before yea, metallicas st anger for one . but really, is it really so terrible? would you rather listen to watershed forever, or that video that guy posted last page(sorry i cant remember who it was). i think the albums terrific, and love it or hate it, i dont think a real opeth fan would completly shit on their work like that

maybe thats just my opinion though

 

[Whisper and Weep]

^ I hear you man... I guess im making it seem like a horrible album which it is by Opeth standards but for a normal record its not so bad. What made me go off on the rant was the constant hating on WS saying its their worst or that GR is better which is not the case. WS is not the best record.. imo BWP is their finest.. but WS definitely comes in a close 2nd. I like every Opeth record, every song is different and spectacular, every song paints a different picture in your head... its just music at its finest but GR just didnt do it right

 

[wut wut]

Lol your telling me to stfu.. thats cool

Cool? How?

I was telling people who were bashing Ghost Reveries to STFU. I was also telling people who were bashing Watershed to STFU.

It's not a 'cool' job, but a necessary one. It's sad to see fans of the band feel that they need to bash a previous album in order to praise a new one. It's one thing to have preferences, but this is just moronic.

But anyways let me tell you how GR is flawed. First of all.. the songs drag on for too long.. each and every song needs to be stripped down like 3 minutes.

Other than Harlequin Forest, and maybe, just maybe, The Grand Conjuration, which songs on the album need to be stripped by 3 minutes? I'd call you crazy if you said Ghost of Perdition, Hounds, or Mire, as every second of those tracks is vital.

And I'd disagree with you on Forest. I like how the synths get louder as the song draws to a close. It gives me the feeling of being overpowered by music.

Opeth albums in the past have parts that have dragged but are far mroe interesting because the instruments themselves evolve throughout the progression..

And this is different on Ghost Reveries... how? Lopez really carries the album most of the time, and it's his drumming that does this job you talk about here. He wasn't responsible for so much of the progression on previous albums, but he carries that burden flawlessly here... which is why I consider GR to be one of my favorite drum albums of all time.

Per's keyboard was is terribly cheesy.. did you listen to the beginning of Beneath the Mire... if you like the sounds he adds to the first minute of that song than you should be playing video games instead of listening to music. At other times he simply overpowers the other instruments of the band which gets completely annoying.

Oh, another one of your, "these are the facts about the music, if you don't agree with me and share my tastes you are fucking WRONG" points I hate about so many prog fans.

I actually thought Per's keyboards were too subdued on GR, which is why I'm glad he has more of a presence on Watershed. And I'm not stating this as a fact; it's just my opinion.

Now I wasnt directing my opinion to this noob but like all others he had to get involved. GR infact was a more mainstream approach to the old Opeth formula that resulted in an awkward and average record.

Go to amazon.com and read Wheelchair Assassin's review on Ghost Reveries. He's far more eloquent than either you or I, and a Top 500 Reviewer on the site. He has a lot of great points for what makes GR a brilliant album.

Actually, I'll quote it here. Read it. I don't expect this review to make you like the album, but at least acknowledge that people who do aren't just mainstream sheep.

Originally written by Wheelchair Assassin at amazon.com:

An awe-inspiring force of nature

After 2003's Damnation introduced a seemingly kinder, gentler Opeth to the world, you might've thought Mikael Akerfeldt and Co. had gone soft. Well, if so, you would've thought wrong, because Opeth aren't just back to metal with the new Ghost Reveries, they're better at it than ever before. While I was a huge fan of theirs a few years ago, my interest had sort of wanted recently, even if I do still think they've released some great albums (most notably Still Life and Damnation). Here, though, they achieve a level of focus and intensity unprecedented in their catalogue. Ghost Reveries is, simply put, their most original, interesting, and brilliant album.

Ghost Reveries is also Opeth's most aggressively proggy release to date-I don't know about anyone else, but listening to this album I was struck by thoughts of Nevermore, Arch Enemy, Isis, and the Mars Volta, even though Opeth don't actually sound like any of those bands-and therefore can take several listens to adequately get your head around. Not that your time won't be well spent, though, as Ghost Reveries is a remarkable leap forward for a band that had already been long since marked as innovators. Opeth have been known since their beginnings for their wide range of emotions and their extensive alternation of sounds, but on previous albums the dynamics tended to be of a HEAVY-light-HEAVY-light-HEAVY variety that got rather comfortable after a while. Here, though, everything is integrated much more seamlessly, exploring a stylistic range that takes Opeth well beyond the status of "that band that mixes death metal, folk, and prog rock."

Opeth do still mix styles with abandon on Ghost Reveries, but the patterns are varied considerably more this time around, with multiple sonic shifts per song, some of which can take a while to pinpoint. As a result, Ghost Reveries is a lot less predictable than what came before it-listening to albums like Still Life and Blackwater Park, I could settle into a heavier or lighter passage secure in the knowledge that it would probably continue for a while, but that's not so here. As tradeoffs go it's a worthy one-there's a lot more of a sturm and drang effect here; the death vocals hit harder for their sparser distribution; and the instrumental passages give you a lot more to chew on. Not to mention, the band's compositional style is just a lot more interesting here, with tighter songwriting highlighted by inceasingly intricate riff structures and guitar harmonies and some azz-kicking solos. For the first time, I can safely say that every second of an Opeth album is made to count.

The first two tracks-Ghost of Perdition, The Baying of the Hounds-are somewhat prototypical Opeth epics, but even then some changes are evident. Even during the heavier parts, there's more of a melodic metal approach, with Mikael's clean vocals (previously used almost exclusively for soft passages) making frequent appearances. Still, these tracks exemplify the band's traditional balance of viciousness and majesty, effortlessly incorporating bowel-shaking growls, gorgeous guitar melodies, and dizzyingly technical instrumental interludes while sweeping keyboard textures, gentle atmospherics, and screaming solos weave their way in and out of the mix. And it may just be my new stereo talking, but I don't recall the bass work being as prominent or interesting on previous albums as it is on this one.

Beneath the Mire, while superficially not that different from the two songs that come before it, is still probably the most rabidly experimental thing on here, shifting mood and tone every minute or so, interspersing head-banging metal with gorgeous vocal melodies and emotionally charged guitar leads, and closing with a bizarre, free-jazzy instrumental passage that wouldn't sound out of place on a Meshuggah CD. And although it sounds a lot different, the first all-nice track Atonement continues in the same vein. In sharp contrast to the pleasant but often lightweight tunes that generally provided a break from all the heaviness in the past, Atonement is a hypnotic, densely layered ambient piece driven by Eastern-accented guitar work, subtle keyboard flourishes, and even some hand drums and piano (never thought I'd hear that combination on an Opeth album). Another classic, the Grand Conjuration, steadily builds tension with some hushed, eerie melodies and foreboding clean vocals before releasing it with flurries of death vox, crazy Meshuggah-style polyrhythms (there's that name again), and ghostly keyboards. For its part, Isolation Years is a pretty nice closer; Akerfeldt's vocals get a little too close to the top of his register for my tastes, but the purty guitar leads and tricky drumming make the song register just enough.

Alright, I'm too bored and full of caffeine to write a suitable closing to this review now, so I'll just leave you with this: if you like Opeth, get this album. It's their best one yet, and easily among my prestigious personal top 5 of the year thus far.

 

[Whisper and Weep]

I'll agree with you on the drumming... its truly Lopez at his finest and I will agree that it leads the songs. Thats one thing I still notice to this day.
But uh.. why are you telling me to respect your opinion when your not respecting mine.. I was clearly not even referring to you until you had to bud in.

Another thing.. bashing an older album to praise this one... nonsense. Deliverance is an unbelievable album and when news about GR surfaced I had just as much hype for that as I did WS 3 years later.. and I still like Deliverance better than GR.. just as I did after listening over and over again to GR trying to get into the songs.. just didnt happen.

That guys review is great... but it doesnt change my opinion.. and I know my rants dont change yours as well... im not trying to change opinions, its impossible, no one has the same tastes, what I'm doing is proving a point that WS is certainly not bad.. its brilliant in fact.. but thats not to say that WS doesnt have flaws.. it most certaintly does, but the whole way the album flows and the different path the band has taken overshadows the flaws and doesnt make them as apparent as before.

 

[Jester-Race]

Whisper and Weep hit the nail on the head here.

Watershed isn't their best, but better than GR, Deliverance, Damnation and possibly Orchid. And I love all of those albums to death.

That's a pretty fucking bold statement.


Oh, and by the way, Baying of the Hounds ALONE beats anything I've heard on watershed. So put that in your opinion pipe and smoke it.