What the fuck America. Just... what the fuck.

[cookiecutter]

I live in Canada because I am student there. I am an American. The government is already deeply involved in health care and those who have government plans (Medicare, VA system) report being the most happy with it. I don't see why it's such a leap for people to accept that it could work on a larger scale.

 

[Dak]

Why exactly shouldn't the government be involved in the well being of all of its citizens? That seems like a noble goal for a government.

If your idea of government is some sort of daddy figure then I guess that would make sense.
In the real world, government is a bunch of power hungry people trying to take as much money and power from you and give you as little as possible in return.

There is no such thing as free. Someone pays for everything. It's a matter of who pays for it. And I honestly don't give a shit about the fat fuck walking around walmart shoveling a big mac in his/her face, pushing a shopping cart full of soda and little debbie's products, and how they can't afford heart surgery at 35.

 

[Dak]

I live in Canada because I am student there. I am an American. The government is already deeply involved in health care and those who have government plans (Medicare, VA system) report being the most happy with it. I don't see why it's such a leap for people to accept that it could work on a larger scale.

Who cares if the user is happy with it? We are talking about financial viability. Medicare is running on fumes. The VA system is completely different. Veterans actually did something to earn tax dollar support. Someone wasting oxygen popping about babies in the projects does not rate my hard earned money. The VA also has it's own hospitals and care centers.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I honestly don't give a shit about the fat fuck walking around walmart shoveling a big mac in his/her face, pushing a shopping cart full of soda and little debbie's products, and how they can't afford heart surgery at 35.

I think you're pretty entitled to have this attitude towards people like that, but not all lower income earners are fuck lazy fucks, and tarring everyone with the same brush is never a good idea imo. What about musicians for example? What if your favorite guitarist from your favorite underground metal band needed microsurgery on his hand?

 

[Dak]

I think you're pretty entitled to have this attitude towards people like that, but not all lower income earners are fuck lazy fucks, and tarring everyone with the same brush is never a good idea imo. What about musicians for example? What if your favorite guitarist from your favorite underground metal band needed microsurgery on his hand?

No one should be forced to pay for it. Federal/state social services are legalized "robin hooding" (which is theft), no matter how you slice it.

Edit: Of course not everyone fits that profile, but those are specifically the people that are gonna be the first to jump on Obamacare. I sure as hell won't. My parents live near the poverty level and aren't in favor of it either.
Oh yeah, they have never taken food stamps or any of the rest of that bullshit either.

 

[Pessimism]

^Well, be sure to share my congratulations with them.

For many others who didn't receive the opportunity for bettering themselves in any way shape and form (in a career/educational system that is), I'm sure they can just man up some more and soldier on. KI mean, it's not like their taxes (no matter how little) add up to dick anyway - am I right guys?

 

[optionthree]

#2 It's a fucking terrible idea and I will be mad as hell having to pay for this bullshit. Government run anything is always a model of in-efficiancy, and somehow healthcare is supposed to be different? Nevermind the fact it that government shouldn't be involved in it anyway.

That's a very broad generalization. Certainly public enterprises have less incentive to be efficient than private ones, but that doesn't mean all public establishments are failures. Universal health care exists in Canada, France, the UK, and numerous other countries and it works there, so I don't see why it's necessarily destined to fail in the US. Health insurances companies are far from model businesses themselves, anyways.

 

[Cythraul]

#2 It's a fucking terrible idea and I will be mad as hell having to pay for this bullshit. Government run anything is always a model of in-efficiancy, and somehow healthcare is supposed to be different? Nevermind the fact it that government shouldn't be involved in it anyway.

Is health care in the US fucked up? Yes. Is Obamacare the answer? HELL no.

Amen brother.

Health insurances companies are far from model businesses themselves, anyways.

Hmmm...I wonder why that is.

 

[cookiecutter]

Efficiency and profitability should not be the only things considered when people's health is at stake.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Clearly a half black democratically elected president and his gay jewish crony are Nazis.

Closet Nazis

 

[Einherjar86]

Grant! Welcome back friend.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

*waves*

Guess I have been a bit of a stranger lately. I'll try to work on that.

Andy told me this place has been shit lately tho.

 

[Eligos]

Just a bit.

 

[False Joe]

It's in a quality recession.


I'm probably not helping.

 

[Dak]

Efficiency and profitability should not be the only things considered when people's health is at stake.

We aren't talking about profitability, we are talking about sustainability. Operating in the red is not sustainable. The US obviously hasn't figured that out yet.

Edit: Welcome back VG. Listen to that mix yet?

Edit #2:

Got this in a FWD, scary

Let me get this straight.

We're going to get a health care plan shoved down our throats that is written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a president that also hasn't read it, and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's nearly broke.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Base Delta Zero]

That's a very broad generalization. Certainly public enterprises have less incentive to be efficient than private ones, but that doesn't mean all public establishments are failures. Universal health care exists in Canada, France, the UK, and numerous other countries and it works there, so I don't see why it's necessarily destined to fail in the US. Health insurances companies are far from model businesses themselves, anyways.

The problem is the U.S. federal government's waste far exceeds the greed of private health insurance companies. For instance, for every dollar spent on actual health care, the largest health insurance companies spend ~16-18 cents on advertising, administration and profit while Medicare spends 26.9 cents/dollar on administration. When you also consider the $34 trillion in unfunded Medicare liabilities (it's become a huge Ponzi scheme), it becomes an exercise in madness to even consider a public option or universal health care in the U.S.

Personally, I blame Johnson's Social Security Act for our shambling health care. There was no real need for health insurance before Johnson's 'Great Society'.

 

[Base Delta Zero]

Does anyone know whether or not the 10% fee could be waived for prematurely cashing out an IRA for health care expenses? I know the IRS will waive the fee under extenuating circumstances. If so, that would be an ideal alternative to health insurance. Even with the 10% fee and taxes, it would most likely be ideal.

Edit - Nevermind. I completely forgot about Roth IRA's. Derrr...

 

[King Richard]

She's obviously missing a few kangaroos from the top paddock/a few stubbies short of a six pack/not quite right in the head.

lol

 

[viewerfromnihil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

Isn't mainstream media funny? I love how everybody against the healthcare movement and many of the Obama policies is depicted as either an idiot or some redneck that stands there yelling "I wunt ma cuntry back!" Fox News is also equally amusing for doing the exact opposite.

Out of curiosity, have any of you even read the bill? I've actually read a decent amount of it and most of it doesn't even pertain to healthcare. There's actually one section in it stating that police can randomly come to your house and pretty much search it to "make sure you're raising your children correctly." 1984, amiright?

As for the Nazi shit, did you all forget who said that the people at these townhall meetings were like Nazis and may as well have swastika's on themselves? I believe it was that elitist cunt, Pelosi. BTW, Hitler was actually one of the first who attempted to set up a socialized healthcare system. He was also an animal rights activist and one of the reasons why he created Volkswagen was to cut carbon emissions. Anyways, I digress. Bottomline, try actually looking into a subject before trying to defend your stance on it. Maybe you could also check out both of the sides of view and maybe even stray in the middle but I'd be careful about going there. I would go on and on about why I oppose the bill but I really don't feel like putting the energy into doing it. Hell, I dreaded typing this much.


Oh and the military and VA system works because it's not serving 300 fucking million people.

 

[skeptik]

You're a fucking moron. I just wanted to make sure that was stated.