what the fuck is this forum comming too

[Nebulous]

I'd agree that the forum has turned into a "how do mix guitar with no amp?" overload.

I'd like to see more threads that could open up some new discussion that would cater to more than just the guitarists in here, or more than just the bedroom musician.

 

[K Odell]

I'd agree that the forum has turned into a "how do mix guitar with no amp?" overload.

I'd like to see more threads that could open up some new discussion that would cater to more than just the guitarists in here, or more than just the bedroom musician.

Actually something I would like to learn a ton more about is tracking vocals. I really want to try and get better at that.

EDIT: Random and off-topic I know, but still I figured I would say it.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I envision something like this ...........




ARE YOU A POTENTIAL NOOB (please read)

PRODUCTION TIPS
Drums
Guitar
Bass
Keys
Vocals
SFX
Mixing
Mastering

PRESETS
Drums
Guitar
Bass
Vocals

SOUND SAMPLES
Amps
Pick ups
Cabinets
Keys
SFX

while I agree with most of what you said I think THAT is the worst thing that could happen to the forum!
I can already see the links to this forum on HCAF being doubled...people searching for samples, impulses A QUICK FIX would be sent here.
and they would even get that instant gratification----
I would even think Brett should remove some links from the topics....Andy's Drumsamples for example....those have been posted in thread full of interactions, discussions and advice....now they're being offered here on the golden platter for people to grab them and treat them as the be all end all.
the Idea of stckies is nice, but it won't help...people that bother reading the stickies are not the ones who'll be getting obnoxious, it's the ones for who reading stickies, manuals etc is too much effort that get annoying, those are the ones looking for the quick fix.
if a newb in his first post asks "where can I find Andy's (or who ever's) drumsamples" I'd be the last one to help him tbh (I know, sounds arrogant), cause I know 1 week later there'll be five new threads "rate my...Andy's samples".
I don't like seeing links to this forum being posted on other boards (such as HCAF) as a reply to "where can I find drumsamples"....or is this what this board for other forums is?
A place to grab and pick up samples, then return to the other forum and tell them how elitist we are?
I mean, take the "questions to Andy" thread for example....90% of the questions have been answered before! Andy's told what samples he used on Testament, KSE, Nevermore, Arch Enemy, he's told us what sample from the D4 he prefers, which one Colin Richardson prefers, he's told about how he treats overheads and how he treats Bassguitar etc...he's told at least 90% of what people asked somewhen earlier.
and that for example was a thing that got me angry, there's Andy sharing LOTS and then he's even so übernice to answer in another big "Q to A" thread and people ask the same shit he's already answered....how can we expect Andy take the effort of doing all this when people aren't even willing to spend the time searching the forum?
And no, I'm not gonna link you to where Andy said what Samples he likes, just read the oldest 20 Pages and you'll find all of that.
that is valuable information for either the people that have been here back then or/and for the people who're dedicated enough to search, read and learn...when those mentioned stickies pop up so that this forum becomes a sample/impulses/preset-host for other forums to link to I'll be gone, cause that'll just lure more people to this place who aren't even willing to take some effort and learn....
I actually think this is the reason why this forum got watered down in the past....to many people spreading links to things posted on this forum on other forums.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Just read over the last couple of pages, interesting stuff.
I'm relatively new here and I've made my best efforts to keep starting new topics to a minimum. I think I've read literally every thread in the "Production Tips" section, which answered most of my questions which otherwise would have been contained in a stupid waste of space n00bish thread.
One thing that does bother me, as pointed out, is the elitist thing going on from time to time. I mean, geezus, you avoid threads purely because it has SoloC/8505 or 7170+ impulses on the title? Why not actually go in there and see if it's actually worth a listen?. The music could actually be good and it might be someone that genuinely wants to learn. Half the people here will learn nothing if a cycle of elitism just goes around like that and we will continue to be bombarded with stupid, n00bish threads asking for help in the Production Tips forum which will be partly because some people refused to help them in their "Rate my mix" threads because some people believe SoloC/8505+impulses is something that must be avoided at all costs.

What about the fact that some of these digital amp sims actually have tonal qualities people prefer over the real amp? Are they wrong for having their own opinion, are they wrong for using the 5150 Revalver sim rather than the real deal 5150 if they actually feel the sound and feel of the digital amp sim feels more right to them?
Call me crazy, but after a while with the POD, there are certain aspects to it I enjoy in it's tone that real tube amps don't have. And I'm not the only one that thinks this either, so maybe I'm not crazy after all.

Am I a hobbyist? At this stage, yeah I am
I don't want to have feel like a second class forumite because I'm not a pro nor even a semi pro.
Isn't it true that sometimes people aren't sure what they want to do?
I mean, I don't think every pro skateboarder started out because they want to be pro, they didn't all have that mindset instantly.
Some guys just picked up a skateboard out of curiosity and came to just love it over time and felt it was worth the expense to try to become pro and get sponsored and all that stuff.
Maybe others just did pick one up and said "Well I wanna achieve success like Jamie Thomas did too".
Me personally, my skateboard is just something to go up to the shop with and to get beer or whatever, I don't think hat makes me a worse person.

I'm here cos I really do want to learn some stuff and I feel I've learnt a little here so far from reading all those pages of stuff.
Do I want to become a pro AE? Honestly I don't know. I'm probably considering a career in IT most likely, but even so it would be cool to come home from after work in the office in the future, record some stuff and be more pleased with the sonic results than if I had never learnt about any of this stuff.

If there's something this forum really did for me, it's that it helped me appreciate the sheer amount of talent and hard work and experimentation guys like Sneap, Andy Wallace etc have put in over the years.
Before coming to this forum, I never realized the extent of it, but now I do and I am able to throw on an album like TGE or Doomsday Machine and I can marvel at the sonic beauty that I wasn't able to see before coming here and learning about some of it and understanding what a long road to becoming great it was for Andy Sneap.

 

[Nebulous]

Actually something I would like to learn a ton more about is tracking vocals. I really want to try and get better at that.

EDIT: Random and off-topic I know, but still I figured I would say it.

I couldn't agree more. I actually started this thread before I even came into this one:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...p-your-best-vocal-production.html#post8496791

Let's hope we all go back to sharing info again.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

One thing that does bother me, as pointed out, is the elitist thing going on from time to time. I mean, geezus, you avoid threads purely because it has SoloC/8505 or 7170+ impulses on the title? Why not actually go in there and see if it's actually worth a listen?. The music could actually be good and it might be someone that genuinely wants to learn.

why then not call the thread "a new song I'm working on, please help with mix" ?
in that case someone needs help and if I find the time I'd try to help him (I know, happens rarely lately, but that's because I can't download anything on my studio Computer atm).
no, he calls the thread "8505+dfh" and puts it right next to 8 more threads with almost the same title (well, perhaps it's SoloC instead of 8508 or so)....
Why should I be interested in reading that thread?
if someone wants mixing help, why would he have to list the software he used in the title instead of asking the question or at least naming the style or purpose in the title?

see, if someone posts a thread "my bands demo, lend me your ears" I'll try and do so, and in that case I don't care what he used......but I'll not open a thread not saying anything in the title but "SoloC+Slate"

 

[Nebulous]

you avoid threads purely because it has SoloC/8505 or 7170+ impulses on the title? Why not actually go in there and see if it's actually worth a listen?. The music could actually be good and it might be someone that genuinely wants to learn. Half the people here will learn nothing if a cycle of elitism just goes around like that and we will continue to be bombarded with stupid, n00bish threads asking for help in the Production Tips forum which will be partly because some people refused to help them in their "Rate my mix" threads because some people believe SoloC/8505+impulses is something that must be avoided at all costs.

I personally think that "the gear used in a mix" should be taken right out of the thread tilte. I actually like guessing what might have gone into the tracking instead of having it spoilt. IIRC that's how it use to be going back afew years.

Don't get me wrong, there have been examples of average and awsome tones with all methods available to us, so I'm in no way knocking either way. I just think that it would help people to take a mix at face value, instead of going "oh, you used SoloC, I don't like it" or, "holly shit, nice recto/ 5150, etc".

EDIT: posting at the same time as Lasse. Agreed 100%.

 

[K Odell]

why then not call the thread "a new song I'm working on, please help with mix" ?
in that case someone needs help and if I find the time I'd try to help him (I know, happens rarely lately, but that's because I can't download anything on my studio Computer atm).
no, he calls the thread "8505+dfh" and puts it right next to 8 more threads with almost the same title (well, perhaps it's SoloC instead of 8508 or so)....
Why should I be interested in reading that thread?
if someone wants mixing help, why would he have to list the software he used in the title instead of asking the question or at least naming the style or purpose in the title?

see, if someone posts a thread "my bands demo, lend me your ears" I'll try and do so, and in that case I don't care what he used......but I'll not open a thread not saying anything in the title but "SoloC+Slate"

Yeah I actually understand where Lasse is coming from. And I am guilty of putting shit like "Pod Farm + AD drums" in the thread title, but I can totally see where that gets a bit old......especially now-a-days.

Lasse I really enjoy how civil you are about these things. Gives me that soft fuzzy feelin'. And I mean obviously I mean that in a totally homosexual yet platonic way. HAHA

 

[Lasse Lammert]

..Gives me that soft fuzzy feelin'. And I mean obviously I mean that in a totally homosexual yet platonic way. HAHA

haha

 

[HandsOfDespair]

why then not call the thread "a new song I'm working on, please help with mix" ?
in that case someone needs help and if I find the time I'd try to help him (I know, happens rarely lately, but that's because I can't download anything on my studio Computer atm).
no, he calls the thread "8505+dfh" and puts it right next to 8 more threads with almost the same title (well, perhaps it's SoloC instead of 8508 or so)....
Why should I be interested in reading that thread?
if someone wants mixing help, why would he have to list the software he used in the title instead of asking the question or at least naming the style or purpose in the title?

see, if someone posts a thread "my bands demo, lend me your ears" I'll try and do so, and in that case I don't care what he used......but I'll not open a thread not saying anything in the title but "SoloC+Slate"

I completely agree with you, I never understood why people put what they use in the title either. I'll only open these threads if they have like 10 or more posts.

 

[Damian B]

+1 on a hobbyist subforum. It would be helpful for everyone, hobbyists and pros alike.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

And no, I'm not gonna link you to where Andy said what Samples he likes, just read the oldest 20 Pages and you'll find all of that.

here's just an example:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/28404-click-click-click-click-click-click.html

or this:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/26530-triggers-vs-natural.html


or here:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/26526-drum-triggers.html

or there:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/72065-earth-crisis-breed-killers-guitar-tone.html

there's about 100 threads like that with valuable information.

and everyone who says "thanks I haven't seen that before" should perhaps think about searching the forum a bit

IMPORTANT EDIT: of course that's no reason to bump them to the front page now!!!!!!!

 

[K Odell]

here's just an example:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/28404-click-click-click-click-click-click.html

or this:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/26530-triggers-vs-natural.html


or here:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/26526-drum-triggers.html

there's about 100 threads like that with valuable information.

and everyone who says "thanks I haven't seen that before" should perhaps think about searching the forum a bit

IMPORTANT EDIT: of course that's no reason to bump them to the front page now!!!!!!!

Just gonna say you know they probably will get bumped now.

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

Hahahahahaha! Some here remind me of my golf club and bowls club that I am a member of. All the old cunts dont want to lengthen the par 3s or add bunkers around the 16th green, its just not what they want, and because they have been here a long time, they think whatever they say goes. I say "youve had your time, move over for the next gen!". Its always the old presidents and captains, dont like change. "Using a long putter or graphite shafted driver is plain cheating!". Much like the pod, 8505 stuff etc. I couldnt give a fat rats clacker if it had it in the title or not! Put the shit in its own catagory, so as not to push down other threads of more importance to others. that way if you are a tube purist (which I am, never owned a pod, dont even know how to use an impulse), you can click on the relevant sub and enjoy whats on offer instead of moaning about certain words in titles, and so called fake drums and guitar tones wont push others down the line. Fuck, I love what some have done with their non tube tones and drum presets, there is shit tube tones and shit pod tones and vice verser.



I hope to see thousands more here over the years, raping and pilaging all they want, cause out of those thousands, there will be a hundred or so people with genuine interests in achieving individuality. I am a firm believer that if you post a sample of anything on the internet for everybody to use, then it shouldnt matter who wants it, and if someone asked where to find it, and I knew how to get the link, I would gladly give it to them! Dont go to many other forums, but I would recommend this forum to anyone, and wouldnt hesitate to post a link for here. In 5 years time, this forum will be huge, will it be HCAF like, could be, dont care. If there are more defined catagories with the stuff I am interested in, then I wouldnt have to see the other stuff that doesnt interest me at all.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I hope to see thousands more here over the years, raping and pilaging all they want, cause out of those thousands, there will be a hundred or so people with genuine interests in achieving individuality. I am a firm believer that if you post a sample of anything on the internet for everybody to use, then it shouldnt matter who wants it, and if someone asked where to find it, and I knew how to get the link, I would gladly give it to them! Dont go to many other forums, but I would recommend this forum to anyone, and wouldnt hesitate to post a link for here. In 5 years time, this forum will be huge, will it be HCAF like, could be, dont care. If there are more defined catagories with the stuff I am interested in, then I wouldnt have to see the other stuff that doesnt interest me at all.

see, there is the problem....more people do NOT mean more valuable information, cause the people who have something valuable to share won't be here anymore, many have left already for that reason.

by your logic HCAF would have more good information than this place, because it's got more members.....not true.
the quality increases with the size of a forum like this, that's just the mechanics of the thing.
if your golfclub opens for all non members you'll be playing on artificial/plastic grass soon cause the real grass can't support 20.000 people running across is and leaving their garbage everywhere...which is left from the picknic they just had next to hole 7.
but what do you care if you have to wait at hole 7, let them sit there and have their picknic, bring all their friends and enjoy a nice cold beer......to have things sorted you'd need a place where parents could put their children, and perhaps a gokart track for the 15 year olds.....oh, and if you offer blimp tours to see the court from above you'll get even more visitors...great...don't forget the vending machines....actually...you could perhaps have a nice chat about golf, enjoy a cold beer...yeah, it really could be a great place with lots of cool people to hang out, have a picknic, drink beer, enjoy the sun...you ARE right, even I could have a great time there..........but you'll have trouble playing golf!

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

+1 on a hobbyist subforum. It would be helpful for everyone, hobbyists and pros alike.

I am a hobbyist. So I will have to lay down a few tracks, go to the "hobbyist" part of the forum, post my mix, check in a few days, see it has 2 replies with hundreds of looks, and those 2 replies are from other hobbyists just like myself saying, sounds good dude, but I cant say much as I am only a hobbyist to. While the people that are actually great at what they are doing are hanging in the "Pro" section. Hhhmmm. So I decide I cant get enough info that I need to go forward, so I step up and post in the Pro section, and then I would be told to go and post in the Hobbyist section. Clusterfuck and confusing!

 

[Aaron Smith]

I don't have an awful lot of new insight to offer to this thread (Lasse, Egan, Erman, and others have voiced very solid opinions on the matter), but I know that I definitely do NOT want to see 50+ sub categories for the sake of "organization". I like being able to log on and view a few main categories and see what people are talking about; imagine how much of a pain in the ass it would be if you had to click on 50 different subforums just to see if someone had posted something. Guitars, kick drum, reverb, whatever...that's way too much "organization" and I think it would make the forum far more difficult to navigate.

I'm definitely down with the "Drum/Guitar Modeling" subforum idea. I think it would eliminate a lot of the clutter on here that didn't used to exist. I still personally don't really give a rip about cab impulses, even though I've heard people come up with some pretty cool tones before. In fact I only just tried messing with a cab impulse for the first time a couple months ago, just because I was curious enough to finally try it myself. Admittedly I didn't spent a whole ton of time messing with it, but mic'ing up a cab is just so much more fun and yields unique results. I love putting in the time it takes to tweak and amp and put the mic in the right place. If someone else doesn't have the luxury of mic'ing a cab and owning a great amp blah blah blah then great, I'm happy you can have your impulses, but it's such a boring subject for people who don't use them. And Slate is a really great guy, and I own his samples, but I could honestly care less how sweet someone's Slate mix sounds. If we could keep all that modeled drum/guitar whatever stuff in it's own section, I think the quality level of subject matter in the Production Tips and Equipment subforums would immediately begin to climb. I love the threads where people really talk about good old fashioned recording and production/mix techniques! Those threads still happen, but they are few and far between the onslaught of boring stuff.

 

[slayercannibalsuffohead]

see, there is the problem....more people do NOT mean more valuable information, cause the people who have something valuable to share won't be here anymore, many have left already for that reason.

by your logic HCAF would have more good information than this place, because it's got more members.....not true.
the quality increases with the size of a forum like this, that's just the mechanics of the thing.
if your golfclub opens for all non members you'll be playing on artificial/plastic grass soon cause the real grass can't support 20.000 people running across is and leaving their garbage everywhere...which is left from the picknic they just had next to hole 7.
but what do you care if you have to wait at hole 7, let them sit there and have their picknic, bring all their friends and enjoy a nice cold beer..actually...you could perhaps have a nice chat...yeah, it really could be a great place with lots of cool people to hang out, have a picknic, drink beer....but you'll have trouble playing golf!

My golf club is opened to all non members, 7 days a week, as is 80% of all the clubs in my town, its amazing the people you meet through public gatherings! 90% of all non members are great people and of the couple of idiots, well they are dealt with properly and promptly. Nothing here has even come close to what you have suggested! I love meeting new people and playing golf at the same time. Never had trouble once!

 

[Ermz]

see, if someone posts a thread "my bands demo, lend me your ears" I'll try and do so, and in that case I don't care what he used......but I'll not open a thread not saying anything in the title but "SoloC+Slate"

Y'know, it's funny that you mention that Lasse.

I've found over time that it's those threads with gimmick/software titles that grab most people's attention. They get the most views, because people are interested enough to ask for their Revalver presets, their SD2.0 presets and essentially use that thread as a springboard to mooch from the thread starter.

So quite a few times in the past I've said in the thread title (Slate, Bogner, Soldano etc. etc.). Even my most recent one referenced impulses mainly because I knew that word gets people's attention and using it in an antagonistic context (like, oh say, 'I hate impulses') makes it more clickable

So that's the irony there. The gear used doesn't tell you anything about the project, but at the same time it's enticing enough to the majority of users on here to warrant getting clicked on.

Remember when I posted that MASSIVE real amp shoot-out done by those guys at HCAF or wherever the hell, in the studio. That was something I was looking for for years. That thread may have got to about 1/8th of the size of the 'fredman catharsis impulses' thread. It tells you a lot about the general mindset.

You've got so many people here who only know a few buzzwords and the only way to attract attention is to use gimmicks.

 

[HandsOfDespair]

I LOVE reading old threads, the atmosphere was really different on the forum.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/167349-new-drum-triggering-plug.html

It's kinda strange to see Ermz starting his sentence by : Newbie speaking , hahaha