What's prog?

[Spiff]

Further to 7th's discussion on best prog bands, what do you consider progressive rock/metal to be? Is it all twiddly-diddly stuff with mind-boggingly complex time sigs and long instrumentals, or is it something else?

I personally don't see what Dream Theater (who I consider to be a prog metal band) have in common with Queensryche (who I don't consider to be a prog metal band), apart from the fact that they are both metallish. Oh, and that they're both great bands!

 

[Sydo]

Heavy
Progressive
Glam
Thrash
Power
NWOBHM
Death

It's all Metal to me.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

lol, right on Sydo!

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

To me prog is twiddly complex stuff, which is why I don't think Vanishing Point are prog...

But its all metal as Sydo said!

 

[dreamwatch]

Twiddly diddly complex stuff in theory is not a problem for me - boring, anal music is.

I still maintain that Derek Smalls invented prog with Jazz Odyssey.

 

[Wrathchild]

The roots of prog really go back to bands like The Who and Pink Floyd, a glorious age of concept albums and 15-20 minute suites rather than songs. Very much a product of the late 'sixties when rock music was struggling to reinvent itself as a legitimate art form.

This paved the way for people like King Crimson, Yes and ELP and on the heavier side of things, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin. Some of their longer songs show a definite prog influence IMHO.

Rush of course made a career out of that style of music, at least in the 'seventies. Where would so-called prog metal be today without such groundbreakers as By-Tor and the Snow Dog, 2112 and Xanadu? (NOT the Olivia Newton John song before anyone starts!)

The next logical step was Maiden (six+ minute epics R' Us) and of course Queensryche, who, at least to me, seem to have taken quite a few lessons from the Book of Rush.

Then along comes Dream Theater to give the whole genre a bad name. Ho-hum...

W

 

[spawn]

Originally posted by Wrathchild

Then along comes Dream Theater to give the whole genre a bad name. Ho-hum...

W

CON........TRO......VER..........SIAL! They do get a little bit wanky sometimes I suppose, but someone has to dammit!

Dreamy: Derek Small rules!

 

[Spiff]

Originally posted by Wrathchild
Then along comes Dream Theater to give the whole genre a bad name. Ho-hum...

The only way that Dream Theater has given prog a bad name is by inspiring a whole bunch of fiddly-widdly musicians to follow suit and form prog metal bands of their own.

I used to be a prog fan, but not really any more. It's all just rather silly stuff. I like some Yes (The Yes Album and Fragile in particular), but I have far, far too many of their CDs for my liking - I kept buying them in an attempt to find one I like! I'll be selling them once I get around to emailing everyone the list of CDs I'm trying to palm off.

Anyway, Dream Theater didn't give prog a bad name at all. If anything, it probably saved it and gave it a whole new audience. How many of their albums have you heard?

 

[Wrathchild]

I've heard Scenes From A Memory all the way through, and assorted bits n' pieces from other albums on various radio shows. It's probably not enough to give a good overview of DT as a whole, but what I have heard doesn't impress me at all. I like twiddly diddly instrumentals as much as the next guy (I'm a Vai fan after all), but DT just seem a bit too self-indulgent. LaBrie's voice isn't much cop either...

What really irks me is how easily I was conned into buying SFAM
("You like Queenryche and Rush? You'll love this!") Sadly, no.
Perhaps I'd be more open-minded about them if my pride wasn't still smarting. You never know .

W

 

[Icarus]

Personally speaking I thought sfam was a fantastic album....and if you think that is wanky, you should hear images and words

 

[Spiff]

The instrumental (The Dance of Eternity) almost ruins the album for me - very self-indulgent indeed - but the rest of the album makes up for it.

Give Falling Into Infinity a go - that was album they released when they tried to sell out, with little success (although it did get to 35 in the US charts). Also, Images & Words is brilliant - I can't imagine any fan of fiddly-diddly parts (that sounds a bit rude!) not liking it. I don't find it self-indulgent at all, by the way.