Where Theocracy went wrong (aka some questions)

[randomguy]

MoS sounds cool, but some of the lyrics have been disturbing me a bit...

Laying The Demon To Rest:
"...Father come and _lay the demon to rest_"
Really, what is that meant to mean?

Betlehem:
"...your star _burns_ bright..."
well, most people would just say "shines". burning associates something slightly different

On Eagles' Wings:
"You lift the _fallen_ back..."
again, the word choice is not the best possible

Martyr:
"a chosen soul under control..."
as in http://www.av1611.org/crock.html
"The Lord ... doesn't "take over". You don't become a third party when God is working!"
well, that is a rather radical example, but it is about the thing I mean

It may very well be that I haven't completely understood the lyrics or missed some meanings for ambiguous words but here's what I found.
Anyone got any corrections, opinions, comments?

 

[Ryan M.]

MoS sounds cool, but some of the lyrics have been disturbing me a bit...

Laying The Demon To Rest:
"...Father come and _lay the demon to rest_"
Really, what is that meant to mean?

Betlehem:
"...your star _burns_ bright..."
well, most people would just say "shines". burning associates something slightly different

On Eagles' Wings:
"You lift the _fallen_ back..."
again, the word choice is not the best possible

Martyr:
"a chosen soul under control..."
as in http://www.av1611.org/crock.html
"The Lord ... doesn't "take over". You don't become a third party when God is working!"
well, that is a rather radical example, but it is about the thing I mean

It may very well be that I haven't completely understood the lyrics or missed some meanings for ambiguous words but here's what I found.
Anyone got any corrections, opinions, comments?

-"You lift the fallen back on high", this is completely biblical. See as humans we are all fallen after the fall in the garden of eden. Before salvation we feel the weight of the curse, and also damnation... but when we are saved God lifts us back on high. No condemnation and no damnation.
-"A chosen soul under control", well this again is 100% biblical. Do deny this is to deny God's divine sovereignty. I know tons of churches beg to differ, but this is only because they want to think of them selves as higher... basically as their own God. “If we reject divine sovereignty then we must embrace atheism.” -RC Sproul.

And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." John 6:65

Because he is in total control.

“…Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will…” –Ephesians 1:4-5

Notice the words "According to the purpose of his will"... He chose us before the world. It means he is in control of our salvation. Also in control of our souls. you see everything happens according to the purpose of his will because he is a sovereign God. To deny his sovereignty is to deny his power and to say that you can control your own fate and destiny. You can't. If we can control our own destiny and God can't that makes us MORE POWERFUL then him. To deny his sovereignty is to claim you are a god.


I hope this helps you.

By the way that site (http://www.av1611.org/crock.html) is filled with tons of biblical misconceptions and twisted explanations of scriptures, I know these type of people and I admit I have been bitter towards them and angry. It's because I am a sinner... and guily of the same sins as them.

Why use this site? It says rock n roll is of the devil. I find THIS UNBILICAL ACCUSATION to be influenced by the devil more then rock n' roll. No it's not like in the bible it says "thou must listen to rock n' roll". Yeah... but it does say to judge others is wrong. And it's heresy to add, remove from, or twist the words of the bible. It is sinful to judge someone always... and of course its sinful to judge them when it's not even a sin they are doing. It's like they created a new sin called "Rockin'". It says on the site that God cannot use rock n roll. This is wrong. Why? Well he used ME, THE WORST OF SINNERS. Why on earth can he not use rock? It say on that site its the music that is of satan, not the words. This you know, is not biblical. Where on earth did they pull this ridiculous idea from? Are their like satanic sound waves flowing through the speakers? I can go deeper into this topic but I find it pointless because this is never mentioned in the bibal.

I'm sorry if I appear angry and bitter... and prideful. I am a prideful person you know. Imperfect. Correct me if I'm wrong and show me where I am wrong.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

The "your star burns bright" one is probably just to make the music flow better. It's slightly easier to sing "burns" than "shines" in that melody. And technically, stars do burn.

"Lay the demon to rest" means: The "demon" is our sin and temptation. Our Father, God, is "laying the demon to rest" because with his help, we can resist temptation and deny Satan.

 

[FleshAndBloodTheocracy]

MoS sounds cool, but some of the lyrics have been disturbing me a bit...

Laying The Demon To Rest:
"...Father come and _lay the demon to rest_"
Really, what is that meant to mean?

Betlehem:
"...your star _burns_ bright..."
well, most people would just say "shines". burning associates something slightly different

On Eagles' Wings:
"You lift the _fallen_ back..."
again, the word choice is not the best possible

Martyr:
"a chosen soul under control..."
as in http://www.av1611.org/crock.html
"The Lord ... doesn't "take over". You don't become a third party when God is working!"
well, that is a rather radical example, but it is about the thing I mean

It may very well be that I haven't completely understood the lyrics or missed some meanings for ambiguous words but here's what I found.
Anyone got any corrections, opinions, comments?

In reverse order -


Martyr refers to Christ, and yes, He WAS under Heaven's control, working for God and God alone.

How is "You lift the fallen back" not "best"?
Firstly - are you a songwriter? If you were, you'd know sometimes word choices have to be sacrificed to fit the song. I do it all the time.
Secondly - like Ryan said, it's straight from scripture.

But it says "star" in the same line, and stars burn. The use of an antecedent in the same line clears up any ambiguity

to "lay to rest" is taken the same as to kill. Therefore it could be taken literally "Father! Come slay this demon that's tempting me!" or figuratively "Father! Only you can change me, and rescue me from my own sins!"

 

[prem]

Guys...it's not good to feed the trolls...anyone who quotes stuff from the crock site and quibbles over 'shine' vs. 'burn' is just trying to stir up controversy for its own sake.

---Prem

 

[Child Of God]

(First of all, we can't say "Matt wrote that because...", since we are not Matt , it would be better to let him answer -I don't say that for all the answers here-)
I mostly agree with the things that have been said above.

Martyr refers to Christ, and yes, He WAS under Heaven's control, working for God and God alone.

Are you sure ? I thought it was also for Christians who are or will be martyrs.
Since when you are a martyr, you must lay down your life and let God "take control" of your soul.

I think Theocracy's members would give better answers for exact meaning of the lyrics than ours.

 

[Rawshik]

Guys...it's not good to feed the trolls...anyone who quotes stuff from the crock site and quibbles over 'shine' vs. 'burn' is just trying to stir up controversy for its own sake.

---Prem

This.His name is randomguy and he has 1 post which is the one starting this thread, I'm pretty sure he's a troll.But if he's not he's already gotten several good answers so no need to go any further.

 

[randomguy]

Well, first of all, this thread wasn't meant as trolling.
Second:

It may very well be that I haven't completely understood the lyrics or missed some meanings for ambiguous words but here's what I found.

So thanks for correcting me.

And as for 'my' name, it was the first which came to my mind AND was accepted by the registration screen.

 

[Val Allen Wood]

So how bout them metaphors.......LOL

 

[Aletheus]

Moving on...

randomguy is keen.

I believe his worry was simply to keep Theocracy as purest as possible by straightening some points out.
I'm actually impressed by the amount of thought exhibited here both in the way of showing Matt in a different light and that which defended his lyrics.

 

[Ryan M.]

After commenting and getting off I had thoughts racing through my head... "Wait... he just joined... his name is randomguy... he's quoting typical troll sites... hmmm i wonder what this means? TROLL!"

 

[SeaStorm]

Interesting discussion - excellent replies!

OP, to be direct, please know that you destroy your credibility when you cite Dial-the-Truth Ministries as authority. I'm not saying some of your questions aren't reasonable ones, but if you're going to base them on their crazy website, you're not going to get many people taking you seriously.

 

[Ryan M.]

OP, to be direct, please know that you destroy your credibility when you cite Dial-the-Truth Ministries as authority. I'm not saying some of your questions aren't reasonable ones, but if you're going to base them on their crazy website, you're not going to get many people taking you seriously.

LOL!

 

[Craigsnedeker]

Betlehem:
"...your star _burns_ bright..."
well, most people would just say "shines". burning associates something slightly different

Well stars quite litterly "burn" lol

 

[prem]

Well, they don't burn in the traditional sense of an exothermic oxidizing reaction, most typically of a carbon based substance where oxygen combines with carbon in the presence of heat to form CO2 (and sometimes CO), releasing additional heat to continue the reaction...

Instead, stars fuse hydrogen into helium, releasing heat, light, and a number of subatomic particles.

So, the lyrics, in order to be scientifically accurate, should be:

Oh, Bethlehem, your star glows by means of a fusion reaction whereby hydrogen is fused into helium, releasing light, heat, and subatomic particles,
For my eyes have seen....

but I'll take the more poetically pleasing term 'burns' any day of the week.

---Prem

 

[Matt Smith]

OP, to be direct, please know that you destroy your credibility when you cite Dial-the-Truth Ministries as authority.

I would also argue that you destroy your credibility when you join someone's forum just to start a thread called "Where (host of forum) went wrong." We've always been open to discussion/constructive criticism here, but that kind of "I've never met you, but here are a few nitpicky things I DON'T like about you!" trolling approach drives me crazy. I'm sorry you disagree with my word choices; I'll be sure to get your approval the next time I come upon a decision as important as "burn" vs. "shine."

 

[Matt Smith]

Well, they don't burn in the traditional sense of an exothermic oxidizing reaction, most typically of a carbon based substance where oxygen combines with carbon in the presence of heat to form CO2 (and sometimes CO), releasing additional heat to continue the reaction...

Instead, stars fuse hydrogen into helium, releasing heat, light, and a number of subatomic particles.

So, the lyrics, in order to be scientifically accurate, should be:

Oh, Bethlehem, your star glows by means of a fusion reaction whereby hydrogen is fused into helium, releasing light, heat, and subatomic particles,
For my eyes have seen....

but I'll take the more poetically pleasing term 'burns' any day of the week.

---Prem

That was actually the original chorus in the demo version, but I sold out and dumbed it down!

 

[randomguy]

Well, the topic was actually a reference to The Hitch-hiker's Guide To The Galaxy but it seems that idea wasn't that good after all.

 

[Ryan M.]

That was actually the original chorus in the demo version, but I sold out and dumbed it down!

Should have kept it man

 

[Killerah]

-"You lift the fallen back on high", this is completely biblical. See as humans we are all fallen after the fall in the garden of eden. Before salvation we feel the weight of the curse, and also damnation... but when we are saved God lifts us back on high. No condemnation and no damnation.
-"A chosen soul under control", well this again is 100% biblical. Do deny this is to deny God's divine sovereignty. I know tons of churches beg to differ, but this is only because they want to think of them selves as higher... basically as their own God. “If we reject divine sovereignty then we must embrace atheism.” -RC Sproul.

And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." John 6:65

Because he is in total control.

“…Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will…” –Ephesians 1:4-5

Notice the words "According to the purpose of his will"... He chose us before the world. It means he is in control of our salvation. Also in control of our souls. you see everything happens according to the purpose of his will because he is a sovereign God. To deny his sovereignty is to deny his power and to say that you can control your own fate and destiny. You can't. If we can control our own destiny and God can't that makes us MORE POWERFUL then him. To deny his sovereignty is to claim you are a god.

Dude. I love the theology coming out of you here. Where do you go to church? Or do you just immerse yourself in John Piper, Sproul, MacArthur, etc?

That said, I think this thread is pretty amusing.