Why does Europe have more hard rock and metal bands than the USA?

[5150]

I thought I'd start this tread before the TSO tread got too far off topic.

There sure seem like a plethora of such bands throughout Europe. Especially Scandinavia. Is it because they are more socialist as Cherion would state. People looking for independence from the repressive government. Which I find hard to believe. Or is there more freedom from the daily needs that allow for more creativity. Maybe something else that has created a more diverse musical market. Less public sheep that only consume the music that is advertised and they are told to buy?

I know most of the European bands can't make a living only doing music anymore than American bands. So why more albums and labels? Obviously they have a bigger audience. But why?

 

[dcowboys311]

Well for starters you're comparing an entire continent to a single country. Europe has 2x the population of the US. So there are probably more metal bands due to that.

 

[Pellaz]

In a nutshell, it's due to the perception in the media here that "metal is dead, long live rap and hip-hop." That tends to fuel promotional budgets, audience targeting, radio airplay consulting, etc. It's not so much a matter of direct control as an overall perception.

There are some breaks in the clouds of late, but by and large, as long as rap and hip-hop --whose CD sales have been falling even faster than CD sales generally have -- can be kept on life-support, those genres will be pushed the hardest.

 

[Kaosaur]

I honestly doubt there are more. There may be more that you know about, but in probably every community (as in area) you can probably find 20-100 bands.

It's really just a matter of perspective and what's popular. What's hard rock/metal to you might be the kinds of European bands we're talking about and what might be hard rock/metal to your neighbor might be some metalcore band you can't stand.

My point here is that there IS a question here, but not the one that was asked (which is seriously flawed). It's more of a question about tastes and the difference in the industries/communities here and abroad.


What is it that makes us like these specific bands from abroad when there was an entirely separate parallel community here at home that's the same size or even larger and thinks it's doing the exact same thing (hard rock/metal)? Any other attempts to answer this question will be fruitless.

 

[5150]

Well for starters you're comparing an entire continent to a single country. Europe has 2x the population of the US. So there are probably more metal bands due to that.

Alright, throw in Canada and Mexico on the North American side. You still don't add many bands.

Or for that matter, compare only the Scandinavian countries to the entire USA. They still have us beat 10-to-1 in bands and metal diversity.

 

[Kaosaur]

Just to add to my point here, it's nothing more than a "grass is greener" way of thinking. It's the same as when European bands say they aren't really respected/recognized until they've played the States (and specifically New York). There are plenty of diverse and talented bands here at home. I mean...you're from Texas. You've heard of Watchtower, right?

The answer is just a lack of perspective.

 

[dcowboys311]

Alright, throw in Canada and Mexico on the North American side. You still don't add many bands.

Or for that matter, compare only the Scandinavian countries to the entire USA. They still have us beat 10-to-1 in bands and metal diversity.

Really????

According to Metal-Archives:

Denmark: 609 bands
Norway: 1125 bands
Sweden: 2999 bands



United States of America: 14446 bands.



I'm not quite sure what you mean by metal diversity, either. Norway, while having a great metal scene, is primarily known for black metal. Sweden, same deal, but with death metal. Denmark isn't really known for anything.

US is known for death, thrash, and black metal.

I would agree that Europe has a higher percentage of quality bands, though.

 

[Kaosaur]

According to Metal-Archives:

Denmark: 609 bands
Norway: 1125 bands
Sweden: 2999 bands

United States of America: 14446 bands.

Thank you.

 

[5150]

I honestly doubt there are more. There may be more that you know about, but in probably every community (as in area) you can probably find 20-100 bands.

It's really just a matter of perspective and what's popular. What's hard rock/metal to you might be the kinds of European bands we're talking about and what might be hard rock/metal to your neighbor might be some metalcore band you can't stand.

My point here is that there IS a question here, but not the one that was asked (which is seriously flawed). It's more of a question about tastes and the difference in the industries/communities here and abroad.


What is it that makes us like these specific bands from abroad when there was an entirely separate parallel community here at home that's the same size or even larger and thinks it's doing the exact same thing (hard rock/metal)? Any other attempts to answer this question will be fruitless.

OK let's narrow it down to bands that are frequently mentioned on this board or play any of the three (or is it two now) ProgPower festivals.

And yes, I am sure there are hundreds of amateur bands in the USA. But how many have a record contract, let alone an album of original material?

 

[AeonicSlumber]

The fact is that alot of has to do with socialism, and government interest in the music scene in general. It's not that Europe has more hard rock and metal bands than the US, Europe has more successful musical acts because alot of European countries like Norway, France, and The Netherlands are well known for giving money to bands. These countries finance videos, pay tour support, etc to help struggling bands. In other countries like Sweden, you can write off instruments and other music-related things.

And lastly and most importantly, metal as we know it today originated from Europe. Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, etc did not come from the US. These bands were touring more in Europe than they did in America so therefore Europe will always have been more exposed to that kind of music than the US.

 

[Kaosaur]

OK let's narrow it down to bands that are frequently mentioned on this board or play any of the three (or is it two now) ProgPower festivals.

And yes, I am sure there are hundreds of amateur bands in the USA. But how many have a record contract, let alone an album of original material?

That's like asking why the best Scotch comes from Scotland and the best Bourbon from Kentucky.

As for your second statement, I already raised the issue of the industries and tastes being different.

This thread is patently absurd. We might as well be debating why grass grows.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

In a nutshell, it's due to the perception in the media here that "metal is dead, long live rap and hip-hop." That tends to fuel promotional budgets, audience targeting, radio airplay consulting, etc. It's not so much a matter of direct control as an overall perception.

There are some breaks in the clouds of late, but by and large, as long as rap and hip-hop --whose CD sales have been falling even faster than CD sales generally have -- can be kept on life-support, those genres will be pushed the hardest.

Ignorant post of the year! Hip hop > most metal.

Shitty, watered down music from ANY genre that is manufactured to sell records will sell. It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cent or Slipknot or Korn.

 

[dcowboys311]

OK let's narrow it down to bands that are frequently mentioned on this board or play any of the three (or is it two now) ProgPower festivals.

And yes, I am sure there are hundreds of amateur bands in the USA. But how many have a record contract, let alone an album of original material?

Well, in order to get accepted to that site, your band must have a physical release. Demo, EP, album, etc.

I was also unaware that for a band to count as being a legitimate metal band, they had to be signed to a record label. Sorry!

Are amateur bands only limited to the US? Do they not exist in Europe?

Also, just to clarify, not trying to be a dick -- are we talking about metal in general, or just power/prog metal? Your original post was referring to metal, but the most recent said to limit it to only play bands who have played ProgPower.

 

[Kaosaur]

Ignorant post of the year!

Actually, yours is.

Shitty, watered down music from ANY genre that is manufactured to sell records will sell. It doesn't matter if it's 50 Cent or Slipknot or Korn.

ALL music is "manufactured to sell". Anyone who tells you they don't want to sell records and then offers records for sale is lying to you. Anyone who offers a download and a buy option wants to sell you something too. If somebody didn't want to sell it to you, they wouldn't.

Now, your statement has merit when you consider the publishing and advertising money behind it and how many dollars are invested in the product but regardless of genre it comes down to a matter of scale (of budget, promotion) and finally how good it is. Pellaz was simply recognizing that fact.

Shitty albums, rarely sell well in comparison to good albums IN THEIR TARGET MARKET.


Complaining that some shitty album from some megastar outsells the mindnumbingly brilliant album of some unknown is silly at best.



Edit: What I'm trying to do here is derail failtrain before it turns into some whine post about how obscure the music we like is (because essentially that's the truth of it). This is quickly going to become a showcase of how myopic peoples' viewpoints are.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

That's not what I meant at all, way to take my post out of context to suit a completely different argument.

There's a difference between being in a band and selling your music and writing music for the sole purpose of selling records. If you can't see that, then you're in denial. But I digress, I SAID NOTHING about mainstream vs obscure music. Holy shit can you even read? My mind is blown by the fact you even brought this topic up in an attempt prevent thread derail when nobody even mentioned it.

Also there's NOTHING ignorant about what I've said at fucking all. I fail to see how someone taking the entire hip hop genre and degrading it like that; reducing it to some evil empire isn't ignorant.

 

[Kaosaur]

I don't see that he was degrading hip-hop at all, just speaking about the mechanics of the music publishing industry using a fairly accurate example. Besides, we know he probably doesn't like hip-hop. Most of this board probably doesn't.

Anyway, 50 Cent put out a phenomenal album this year. And the "evil empire" doesn't CARE what genre it is. They just want your fucking money!


As an aside:

There's a difference between being in a band and selling your music and writing music for the sole purpose of selling records. If you can't see that, then you're in denial.

From the perspective of the artist, their only goal usually is just to write your music and get it out there. I don't think anyone gets the idea in their head "I wanna sell 10 million records" before they first come to the conclusion of "I want to be a recording artist and for people to love my music." Not unless they're Kanye West. The difference is the road that you have to take to get there. That has nothing to do with the person and everything to do with the type of music they're going for. If you're writing pop diva music, you'd be a fucking clueless moron to take the metal band route and play shitty clubs and market yourself like a stone being rolled up a hill (quoted method a). You go to a major label and get your shit handled right (quoted method b).

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I don't see that he was degrading hip-hop at all, just speaking about the mechanics of the music publishing industry using a fairly accurate example. Besides, we know he probably doesn't like hip-hop. Most of this board probably doesn't.

Anyway, 50 Cent put out a phenomenal album this year. And the "evil empire" doesn't CARE what genre it is. They just want your fucking money!

Dude, backpedal faster. You attacked me and called me ignorant when in reality you totally misread my shit and now you're on some random mumbo jumbo. His post was euphemistically saying "UNLESS WE KILL OFF BIG BAD HIP HOP METAL WILL NEVER B WHERE IT SHUD B... BAWWWW."

And cool that you liked the latest 50 Cent. I did not. But that's not my point. Just because mainstream music is manufactured to sell records doesn't mean I hate it all but IT DOES MEAN that it is not as artistically-minded as independent music. I still like 'Lil Wayne, some Kanye, Paramore, etc. You read my post and imply I'm on some metal elitist rant which is retarded in so many ways. How about not being so judgmental?

 

[Metaldrumz]

Ignorant post of the year! Hip hop > most metal.

Moronic post of the day (and boy do you have a lot of them).

 

[Kaosaur]

Not backpedaling at all, actually. I only called you ignorant for calling him out as ignorant and from my understanding misinterpreting some of what he said. And every time this argument has been raised before I've said pretty much the same exact things as now. I'm pretty consistent here.

And hey...if KRS-One loved the album, who are you to tell him it's not good? (really just having a laugh with this one here.)

In fact, I don't think you're on a metal elitist rant at all, though I think some of the other posts are (and future posts would be). You have to understand that I'm specifically referring to how music is published/marketed and not just speaking to you but to everyone here. But I will say that the mainstream vs independent music is just as ignorant (if not moreso) than the metal vs hiphop and european metal vs american arguments. The vast majority of "independent" labels, particularly in rock and hiphop) are subsidiaries of major labels.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Moronic post of the day (and boy do you have a lot of them).

Cool bro, so because I prefer hip hop to a lot of metal means that I'm a moron? lol irony.