abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
and it sounds like the right approach! any more details as to what you did you percieve that depth?
Why is it so difficult to give metal recordings depth?
- Thread starter Manbient
- Start date
and it sounds like the right approach! any more details as to what you did you percieve that depth?
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
Quite a lot of reverb on vocals and drums, less distortion on strings, no walls of sound (quadtracking etc), cymbals pretty loud, no overly done brickwall limiting, a lot less mud anywhere, the bass is cleanish and now that loud and sounds like the tuning is not dropped, or if it is, then Eb or drop D. And most importantly: supertight playing and nice, spacious arrangements.
Sounds nice btw, what is the name of the band? Sounds a bit like Soulfly, which is good. edit: I googled IMW - Eternal Nightfall and found it out myself. In Malice's Wake. Any chances to get the album from the another side of the world?
Notuern
Bloody vaginal belch
- Oct 20, 2007
- 3,625
- 0
- 36
That sounded really good!
And it does have that late 80's early 90's feel to it(Some kind of a "live" feeling to it.).
It reminds me of Testament - Formation Of Damnation, both the guitarsound, riffing style and mixing.
BUT being a dynamic freak, I did not like how much compression you used on it.
If you rolled back the compression and humanized the snare I would like it a lot more.
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
It amazes me that nobody has mentioned Gojira's "From Mars to Sirius" album. That one has way more depth/space than any of the above mentioned...
...Either we are talking about different album, but atleast my copy is totally brickwalled sausage. "The way of all flesh" is more dynamic than FMTS
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
@abyssofdreams: Essentially just not being afraid to use the overheads and room mics to full effect. I'm sick of this dry drum sound with cheap algorithmic verb all over it. It's OK to use room mics in metal and not highpass the overheads at like 800Hz! The rest is essentially just carving space in the mix. Keeping the mids of the guitars in the right place, allowing for the midrange depth of the reverb to be perceived.
@ahjteam: Actually there isn't all that much reverb. The reason it sounds that way is because the mix has been carved in a way to allow that ambiance to come through. The drum 'verb' is mostly the OHs, room mics and slate's Z4. Freeverb 2 just adds a bit of a longer decay to all of it. The drum fill at the start is with the verbs totally off. I've had mixes in the past where I've sent a lot more drums to the verb sends, but had a lot less perceptible ambiance in the end mix. Great call on everything else though. Standard tuning, fairly tight playing, and yes overheads slightly too loud (the cymbals varied in level so much it was hard to find a good balance).
@Noutern: I get you re: the compression. That audible 'snap' sound with the slight pumping is something that came around during the mastering, but the band seemed happy with it so we gave it the thumbs up. It's a little over the top for me, personally, and it brings the drum transients a bit too far out into the forefront. Ironically enough I think if it were given a bit more level into a limiter (ie. made louder) it would lose some of those compression effects and in essence sound less compressed
. At the end of the day it gives it a sort of unique sound and who knows, it may even catch on if the band are lucky.
Glad you all seem to be enjoying it though. The band is indeed In Malice's Wake. Their site is here: www.inmaliceswake.com
Myspace here: http://www.myspace.com/inmaliceswake
The album comes out tomorrow, and you can purchase it directly from their site!
@ahjteam: Actually there isn't all that much reverb. The reason it sounds that way is because the mix has been carved in a way to allow that ambiance to come through. The drum 'verb' is mostly the OHs, room mics and slate's Z4. Freeverb 2 just adds a bit of a longer decay to all of it. The drum fill at the start is with the verbs totally off. I've had mixes in the past where I've sent a lot more drums to the verb sends, but had a lot less perceptible ambiance in the end mix. Great call on everything else though. Standard tuning, fairly tight playing, and yes overheads slightly too loud (the cymbals varied in level so much it was hard to find a good balance).
@Noutern: I get you re: the compression. That audible 'snap' sound with the slight pumping is something that came around during the mastering, but the band seemed happy with it so we gave it the thumbs up. It's a little over the top for me, personally, and it brings the drum transients a bit too far out into the forefront. Ironically enough I think if it were given a bit more level into a limiter (ie. made louder) it would lose some of those compression effects and in essence sound less compressed
. At the end of the day it gives it a sort of unique sound and who knows, it may even catch on if the band are lucky.Glad you all seem to be enjoying it though. The band is indeed In Malice's Wake. Their site is here: www.inmaliceswake.com
Myspace here: http://www.myspace.com/inmaliceswake
The album comes out tomorrow, and you can purchase it directly from their site!
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
Generally speaking, of course...
I think the challenge is that fast playing on low tuned instruments doesn't translate very well to many listening environments. Modern metal mixes tend to have a lot of high end and not very much bass. It's a challenge to get every note heard in every mixing environment without mixing this way.
Also, most modern metal records are obsessed with using the same guitar sounds, the same drums, etc. on each song. Consistency is nice, easy with software, but I don't think that more audiophile-friendly, analog-based bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin were worried about having the same kick drum or the same guitar sound on every song.
To have a deeper mix, I think you have to have a deeper album in terms of music as well. This isn't a knock to metal, but to me a great metal record like "Wages of Sin" isn't trying to communicate the depth of something like "Dark Side of the Moon" or "Led Zeppelin III." Many modern metal bands are focused on creating a consistent level of heaviness, shredding, great riffs, no "gay" songs etc., without much space or dynamics. Opeth is one of the obvious shining exceptions to that - and they don't care if you call them "gay."
As a mix engineer or audiophile it's easy to start looking at music scientifically, but at the end of the day it really comes down to making the production fit the music itself. Lamb Of God or Arch Enemy wouldn't sound right with a bunch of arbitrary "dynamics" or a really big sounding kick drum, or running the guitars through a vintage Supro combo instead of a high gain tube stack, etc.
I think the challenge is that fast playing on low tuned instruments doesn't translate very well to many listening environments. Modern metal mixes tend to have a lot of high end and not very much bass. It's a challenge to get every note heard in every mixing environment without mixing this way.
Also, most modern metal records are obsessed with using the same guitar sounds, the same drums, etc. on each song. Consistency is nice, easy with software, but I don't think that more audiophile-friendly, analog-based bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin were worried about having the same kick drum or the same guitar sound on every song.
To have a deeper mix, I think you have to have a deeper album in terms of music as well. This isn't a knock to metal, but to me a great metal record like "Wages of Sin" isn't trying to communicate the depth of something like "Dark Side of the Moon" or "Led Zeppelin III." Many modern metal bands are focused on creating a consistent level of heaviness, shredding, great riffs, no "gay" songs etc., without much space or dynamics. Opeth is one of the obvious shining exceptions to that - and they don't care if you call them "gay."
As a mix engineer or audiophile it's easy to start looking at music scientifically, but at the end of the day it really comes down to making the production fit the music itself. Lamb Of God or Arch Enemy wouldn't sound right with a bunch of arbitrary "dynamics" or a really big sounding kick drum, or running the guitars through a vintage Supro combo instead of a high gain tube stack, etc.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
16S
all gods fail...
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Nothing overly special. Just listening, comparing, finding something that sounds right. There was a LOT of mixing work involved as many of the natural tracks didn't sound very good at all. The most processing I've ever done on a mix - actually quite a miracle that it turned out as it did.
@16S: Thanks man, that's very generous of you.
@16S: Thanks man, that's very generous of you.
ze kink
THE BLACK WIZARDS
Might be slightly offtopic, but I just have to say that I'm loving this album a lot, and the production is killer too.
I'd recommend checking out Tool, ISIS and other stuff that's usually categorized as Post-metal.
paladin shredder
Member
If you want a modern metal cd with depth, check into Iced Earth - Framing Armageddon. I really feel like i'm in a totally different space when I listen to that cd.
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
iekobrid
Authorized XSr Dealer
post-microphones, more like. The songwriting and performances (what little of them I can make out) would easily make it my favourite album in their catalogue, but that MIX... argh. I swear to god I cannot hear the vocals (and to a lesser degree, the drums) 80% of the time. He finally decides to sing melodies, and just my luck -- they're buried. No matter what speakers I listen through, it sounds like I'm listening to the rear channels of a lazy 5.1 mix -- all stereo delay and no center channel info. Is it possible that the band went way thee fuck overboard with a stereo widening effect in post?
Goodness Gracious..this couldnt be more obvious
To say there is a lot going on misses the boat..think people. You can have a lot going on and have depth. For cryin out loud..ever hear of an Orchestra?
It is because every instrument is recorded and eq'd for maximum depth. Once you treat each track to have uber depth -- you wind up having no depth as a whole. Its like painting everything Red. Im exaggerating a bit because each instrument does not achieve a full eq spectrum--but they are certainly extended beyond what a prudent mix engineer would use.
Putting down 9 layer'd guitar tracks panned left, right, and center, low tuned to eat the basses space and eq'd like static on the top end is a recipe for lifelessness. Its like thinking you'll make better chocolate chip cookies by adding more sugar and chocolate. Too much of the good stuff actually ruins it. I know many will jump on me-- but this music is geared toward an insanely narcissistic generation of ultra violent video games and movies with 100 quick camera changes in a minute. They dont care if there is depth. They want everything full force and obnoxious. So I would not sweat it.
If you want to learn to mix like an artist you need to let go of the triple tracks, a thousand double kicks a minute, and the static high end. But guess what--then you loose your audience. Your audience is not about tasty sonic nirvana. People like Andy know how to add a lot without sounding obnoxious. The problem is many of the mixes people rave about around here are terrible from an engineering standpoint. In Flames comes to mind. If you dont even know whats good, how can you learn? You can disagree but ask the best in the business if thats a good mix. As I said..its a bit of a conundrum though because the audience likes an abrasive mess--they would commit suicide if they heard an Orchestra or a poem on goodness. They want hate and hate sounds mean.
Well, thats my philosophical rant of the month. It just and opinion that many have and it certainly is just that. No better or worse than yours. I would stick with mixes that go as far as Andy and no further. Study those type of mixes.
To say there is a lot going on misses the boat..think people. You can have a lot going on and have depth. For cryin out loud..ever hear of an Orchestra?
It is because every instrument is recorded and eq'd for maximum depth. Once you treat each track to have uber depth -- you wind up having no depth as a whole. Its like painting everything Red. Im exaggerating a bit because each instrument does not achieve a full eq spectrum--but they are certainly extended beyond what a prudent mix engineer would use.
Putting down 9 layer'd guitar tracks panned left, right, and center, low tuned to eat the basses space and eq'd like static on the top end is a recipe for lifelessness. Its like thinking you'll make better chocolate chip cookies by adding more sugar and chocolate. Too much of the good stuff actually ruins it. I know many will jump on me-- but this music is geared toward an insanely narcissistic generation of ultra violent video games and movies with 100 quick camera changes in a minute. They dont care if there is depth. They want everything full force and obnoxious. So I would not sweat it.
If you want to learn to mix like an artist you need to let go of the triple tracks, a thousand double kicks a minute, and the static high end. But guess what--then you loose your audience. Your audience is not about tasty sonic nirvana. People like Andy know how to add a lot without sounding obnoxious. The problem is many of the mixes people rave about around here are terrible from an engineering standpoint. In Flames comes to mind. If you dont even know whats good, how can you learn? You can disagree but ask the best in the business if thats a good mix. As I said..its a bit of a conundrum though because the audience likes an abrasive mess--they would commit suicide if they heard an Orchestra or a poem on goodness. They want hate and hate sounds mean.
Well, thats my philosophical rant of the month. It just and opinion that many have and it certainly is just that. No better or worse than yours. I would stick with mixes that go as far as Andy and no further. Study those type of mixes.
For the perception of stage, you need Hi-dynamic phase-coherent monitors with a wide baffle, very stiff housing and a filter that is matched within tenths of dB's.
I'm afraid you have to spend another $40K:
http://www.stereophile.com/audaciousaudio/105sonus/
I swear by this design. Profoundly.
I'm afraid you have to spend another $40K:
http://www.stereophile.com/audaciousaudio/105sonus/
I swear by this design. Profoundly.
Goodness Gracious..this couldnt be more obvious
To say there is a lot going on misses the boat..think people. You can have a lot going on and have depth. For cryin out loud..ever hear of an Orchestra?
It is because every instrument is recorded and eq'd for maximum depth. Once you treat each track to have uber depth -- you wind up having no depth as a whole. Its like painting everything Red. Im exaggerating a bit because each instrument does not achieve a full eq spectrum--but they are certainly extended beyond what a prudent mix engineer would use.
Putting down 9 layer'd guitar tracks panned left, right, and center, low tuned to eat the basses space and eq'd like static on the top end is a recipe for lifelessness. Its like thinking you'll make better chocolate chip cookies by adding more sugar and chocolate. Too much of the good stuff actually ruins it. I know many will jump on me-- but this music is geared toward an insanely narcissistic generation of ultra violent video games and movies with 100 quick camera changes in a minute. They dont care if there is depth. They want everything full force and obnoxious. So I would not sweat it.
If you want to learn to mix like an artist you need to let go of the triple tracks, a thousand double kicks a minute, and the static high end. But guess what--then you loose your audience. Your audience is not about tasty sonic nirvana. People like Andy know how to add a lot without sounding obnoxious. The problem is many of the mixes people rave about around here are terrible from an engineering standpoint. In Flames comes to mind. If you dont even know whats good, how can you learn? You can disagree but ask the best in the business if thats a good mix. As I said..its a bit of a conundrum though because the audience likes an abrasive mess--they would commit suicide if they heard an Orchestra or a poem on goodness. They want hate and hate sounds mean.
Well, thats my philosophical rant of the month. It just and opinion that many have and it certainly is just that. No better or worse than yours. I would stick with mixes that go as far as Andy and no further. Study those type of mixes.
This post would be significantly more awesome if you used parentheses in your contractions and hadn't used 'loose' where you should have used 'lose', but that anal nonsense aside I'm dangerously close to agreeing with you.
Jeff
