Work

[MURAI]

I am sure Cynical is implying that said government would extend benefits to those artists and writers etc., that have produced something of note and of some cultural significance. This idea of patronage has been around for thousands of years. Its just we Americans are hostile to creativity and art unless it's profit producing.

The role of art has changed. As Cynical said earlier, art work was designed for the church during the medieval period because they were the ones to pay for it. I'm not too fond of Christian works because it is not my taste but at least art had some kind of direction then. There's barely any unity (culture, art etc) in American/ Canadian society now, so art reflects that and there's the attitude of anything goes. Yes, there's apathy to work that would not sell but I'd say the main reason that art is not appreciated because there's no standard any more. Also, no one gives a shit other than paying to be entertained and this lack of serious attitude is reflected on the art around today. But, there's the belief of art shouldn't be traditional landscapes or lifedrawings because it's out of date and done before. Just look at a illustration or contemporary art books and what's "in" is just whatever that is non-traditional.

Most people won't create great art whether they work or not; it's not a judgement against them, it's just that they've got different abilities and a different purpose (or, in many cases they're completely worthless, but for the sake of this post, lets ignore those folks).

Yes, I am not saying that everybody has to get art because it's one of those things that you get or you dont. It's something in your nature. You can still live fine not getting it and you can still contribute to society in one way or another.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

taxes, as they exist now, will be the downfall of the modern world

 

[derek]

But, there's the belief of art shouldn't be traditional landscapes or life-drawings because it's out of date and done before. Just look at a illustration or contemporary art books and what's "in" is just whatever that is non-traditional.

I think there is a tendency towards making art as "arty" as possible these days. I am not dedicated to the idea of art in the traditional sense, but at the same time, I find it immensely difficult to look upon Tracy Emin's unmade bed as art ( http://graphics.ink19.com/issues/july2002/modart5.jpeg) Nor Damien Hirst's shark in formaldehyde ( http://balkon.c3.hu/balkon03_06-07/images/damian_hirst.jpg ) for that matter.

I'm not saying that art needs to be more traditionally accessible, but I do believe much art has became saturated in the nonsense that everyday culture bathes in day after day.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

I think there is a tendency towards making art as "arty" as possible these days. I am not dedicated to the idea of art in the traditional sense, but at the same time, I find it immensely difficult to look upon Tracy Emin's unmade bed as art ( http://graphics.ink19.com/issues/july2002/modart5.jpeg) Nor Damien Hirst's shark in formaldehyde ( http://balkon.c3.hu/balkon03_06-07/images/damian_hirst.jpg ) for that matter.

I'm not saying that art needs to be more traditionally accessible, but I do believe much art has became saturated in the nonsense that everyday culture bathes in day after day.

the un-made bed is really just a bed (i think it could be considered art if it was a made bed with a one-of-a-kind unique artisticly designed blanket) but i think that the shark could be considered art (in comparison to the non-art of an un-made bed)

 

[derek]

Well, I have pondered over Hirst's Shark in formaldehyde at length and came to the conclusion that while it was aesthetically shocking and or pleasing to look at (colours, harsh shapes etc) it could not consider it art anymore than I consider a black square on a red piece of paper art. They both may have qualities that are appealing, but are just not that particularly artistic, in my eyes anyways. Plus, I'm not convinced that Hirst and Emin were actually concerned with art before publicity and celebrity, so that demeans the art in some way, I believe.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Well, I have pondered over Hirst's Shark in formaldehyde at length and came to the conclusion that while it was aesthetically shocking and or pleasing to look at (colours, harsh shapes etc) it could not consider it art anymore than I consider a black square on a red piece of paper art. They both may have qualities that are appealing, but are just not that particularly artistic, in my eyes anyways. Plus, I'm not convinced that Hirst and Emin were actually concerned with art before publicity and celebrity, so that demeans the art in some way, I believe.

the people that make money from their art are specifically trying to make money/aquire fame and that's the thing that's reason why the newest things called "art" are actually crap
my sister does the best shade art i've ever seen but she does it to escape from the pressure of her job (teaching other people how to be the coustomer srvice people you talk to when you have prob with your cell phone) instead of doing her shade art as a job, so the shading has the soul of a person enjoying it instead of showing the lack of soul of a person being a corperate sell-out

 

[infoterror]

The problem is that 90% of people are sheep-like, and are afraid to put their lives, their world under that microscope and learn about things and grow

It's only a problem because they can vote and buy things.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

It's only a problem because they can vote and buy things.

it seems to me that the people that vote and buy things are noticably MORE sheep-like than those people that don't vote and don't buy things

 

[judas69]

The Illusion of Control

I think voting gives you the illusion that you actually matter and that you and your pen can actually make a difference. If there was no voting or any related outlet for that matter .. the people would be more bitter and angry about government so, what better way to keep the masses apart of the processes (so they at least in part have themselves to blame if something goes wrong ..which always does) and under control, then to let them place an X on a piece of paper every other year or so.

Okay, so the power is in the people and not the individual. You have then to accept that the majority will rule and dominate your precious little voice. My family for example votes liberal, almost blindly ..all the damn time. If I vote NDP or PC it really doesn't matter, for there are always those mindless sheep wandering around voting for one particular party year after year without thought for the sole reason that they think it is "the best choice", whatever the fuck that means. All I have to say is thanks for cancelling out my vote.

I swear, if it were up to me .. voters would have to pass a test showing their understanding of issues and the political process before dirtying up that piece of paper with their vote. The half-senial-elderly group would be excluded in my system aswell ..and of course, off the streets .. have you seen them drive?

Anyway, the voting process may make you feel-good, but that's about it. You might aswell just pray your vote up to GOD ..and at least save some time and gas.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Okay, so the power is in the people and not the individual. You have then to accept that the majority will rule and dominate your precious little voice. My family for example votes liberal, almost blindly ..all the damn time. If I vote NDP or PC it really doesn't matter, for there are always those mindless sheep wandering around voting for one particular party year after year without thought for the sole reason that they think it is "the best choice", whatever the fuck that means. All I have to say is thanks for cancelling out my vote.

"majority rule never works because you'll always have 5 wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner"
Larry Flint
refering to right- wing christian fanatics protesting "Hustler" magazine by saying it was so much more offensive than Hugh Hefner's "Playboy"

but i think it's applicable to any non-porn/non-sexual situation of majority rule basicly it's like this
majority rule = minority getting screwed and trampled

 

[judas69]

I've heard you use that quote before, and I like it .. I'm gonna have to commit it to memory.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

I've heard you use that quote before, and I like it .. I'm gonna have to commit it to memory.

i just remember it cuz it seems to be applicable to all of the different things that are fucked up with america

 

[MasterOLightning]

How did you derail this thread so badly in the last five posts? It's way off topic now.

 

[Scott W]

What about all the people who research technological advances, the growth/development of certain species, history and so forth. Do they not count?

Of course they do, hell its what I want to do for a living. I was just pointing out something that I thought would be most likely to be viewed as "worthwhile" in his book.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

How did you derail this thread so badly in the last five posts? It's way off topic now.

me???

 

[Mythos Inibri]

it really can be hard work to get on welfare???

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

it really can be hard work to get on welfare???

in the USA, yes

 

[MURAI]

I think there is a tendency towards making art as "arty" as possible these days.

Indeed.

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

I'm in a field where every day is completely different.....no two days are alike. And if I had a profession where that were not the case, I think I'd get bored and depressed very quickly.

I continually take new courses and attend workshops to upgrade my knowledge and aid in my productivity. As an example.....I have an account that deals directly with the Aboriginal community in northern Canada. I make reservations for business travelllers who travel up to the Northwest Territories and Nunavut in order to conduct their business with the locals. And in most cases, I have to call up North and make these reservations directly.....and the language and cultural differences and expectations can be challenging.

I've taken training to learn how to understand their culture and views on life so that I could effectively communicatre with them when it came to conducting business. Which has helped significantly as there really is a 'distinct' difference on how Northern and Southern cultures live their lives and view the world.

In a nutshell.....you get out of your work what you put in. If a great income and professional staus are a by-product.....then so be it. But at the end of the day, it's the challenge and the pride in knowing that you are good at something and are creatively challenged and fulfilled that stokes your engine. It shouldn't be about that white coat, the name on the door, or the office with the window.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Most people won't create great art whether they work or not; it's not a judgement against them, it's just that they've got different abilities and a different purpose (or, in many cases they're completely worthless, but for the sake of this post, lets ignore those folks). It makes sense for society to give the ones of these who are able work that helps society, both for their own sake and the sake of society as a whole. For those who are naturally artists, authors, musicians, etc., it makes sense for them to spend their time painting, writing, composing, etc., rather than working in an office, and to be "comissioned" for their art by the rest of society (think religious works of art during the medieval period).

Agreed, except for the worthless part.

All I know is that if you find a job you love, you won't work a day in your life.