Worst Albums Ever.

orly? nah, i haven't heard it yet. Thanks for the heads up.



but it doesn't. The universal truths aren't simple, and i never claimed them to be. But there are very, VERY strong indicators of a sum of events and experiences which result in an interpretation of music; events that may not be impossible to measure. In that sense, music is "subjective", certainly. Overall, music is a "subjective" field, i don't disagree. What i do disagree with is that it's not "ordered". It's not random by ANY means, and i believe certain variations in key parameters are what cause our interpretations.

I'm extremely confident, for example, that when persons from any part of the world in any walk of life, in any sociological environment are given two pieces of music, that (assuming the pieces are significantly different from one another) there will be an insurmountable agreement on which one is "sadder". How could this possibly be a coincidence? How does that not indicate some level of objectivity of interpretation? It's lazy and simple minded to ignore these kinds of phenomenon and attribute any discrepancy of musical interpetation to "music is subjective". There are patterns. I don't think there will ever be 100% agreement on anything, but that's because the truths lie in very very small, yet extremely numerous parameters which yield the apparent result. It's a complex function, and simply seeing the result does not provide any information on what the process was.

I don't think i'm presenting any new ideas here. I think what i'm defining here IS what some people refer to as "subjectivity", but in my own case i prefer to refer to it as a sum of an arrangement of objective truths. Calling it "subjective" implies to me that nothing is measurable and there aren't patterns, which i do NOT believe.


I'm surprised how often this topic pops up here. I've only been around for a bit over year, and it seems like every 2 months or so this comes up. I've argued in the past, but frankly I'm tired of doing that.

I will say that I would like to believe Bumble. I'm not sure if "sad music" is experienced so cross-culturally. I would have to believe that musicologists have studied this, particularly in studies of why people can even attribute emotions to music at all.

Other than that, I'm staying on the sidelines for this one. Have fun, guys.
 
What you have there in Bumble's example is consensus, not at all universality. There may be a majority who tend to agree that minor-key pieces (for example) are sadder than major key, but at the same time, any of the following are possible:

a) a few people would most likely identify the major key piece as sadder
b) i'm sure some of them just wouldn't be able to make the distinction at all

This is what I mean... there are 6 billion people in this world, and as much as you'd LIKE to believe (and I think that's what it usually comes down to) that some of them are just wrong and the rest are right, it isn't that simple at all.
 
definitely this album
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What you have there in Bumble's example is consensus, not at all universality. There may be a majority who tend to agree that minor-key pieces (for example) are sadder than major key, but at the same time, any of the following are possible:

a) a few people would most likely identify the major key piece as sadder
b) i'm sure some of them just wouldn't be able to make the distinction at all

This is what I mean... there are 6 billion people in this world, and as much as you'd LIKE to believe (and I think that's what it usually comes down to) that some of them are just wrong and the rest are right, it isn't that simple at all.

ahh, but you're not taking it far enough. "minor key is sadder" is not the objective truth in question. Like i said, many, MANY small parameters. The output of part of the function, "minor key is sadder" is built up of a whole lot of smaller parts, many with commonalities which trigger that interpretation. I don't claim to know what these parameters are, and i don't claim them to be simply binary. It is a system at work though, for sure. If no system was at work, producing moderately predictable results, then responses to any piece of music would by nature have to produce a completely random scatter plot of results with no trend in sight. It is obvious that is not the case.
 
There are too many to mention, the one that sticks out to me is Celtic Frost--"Into the Pandemonium" Was this band serious on this complete waste? I think not, just trying to grab some dough.
 
Blut Aus Nord - Mort

I literally broke the fuckin cd... i was so pissed I wasted my money on that...
 
neggest of all possible reps. and that is the most correct thing metal_wrath has ever said. partial rep for him

Oh wow, i am so glad i got banned for a while, now i can't recieve any rep. And in this instance haha i'm happy! I like Satanic Dirge! And i like Dimmu and Cradle and Darkthrone and Carpathian Forest! Hahahaha don't even try rep me! :p
 
The subjective/objective dichotomy is problematic- we are in no position to discern what is mind-dependent or independent, as the vector for all apprehension is consciousness (which we cannot "step outside" of). Consciousness discloses the world.

Why are you still pimping this crap view about some crap pseudo-issue?
 
Its not a "pseudo-issue" if it is frequently called upon for justification, explicitly or covertly.

As far as phenomenology being crap... its unfortunate you feel that way.
 
The only album I cannot listen to is The Fireman's Curse by Hunters & Collectors. I promise, if you ever hear it, you will agree that it is the worst music ever written. It makes pretty much all these suggestions sound fantastic.