Would it be better if drugs were legalized?

[forbidden fruit]

Sarcasm aside^......

Legalising it, as in regulating it, won't necessarily solve any problems at all.
Take the simple issue of pricing. Making it affordable could put potentially addictive drugs too easily within the reach of curious "try anything once" types... OR, setting prices too high won't have any real impact on drug-related crime... i.e. inclined people will either try to get it on the cheap from their friendly neighbourhood dealer (= illegal drug trade alive and well), or they may turn to crime themselves to support their habit should they become addicted.

But if we're actually talking legalising possession of quantities for personal use, go nuts!! With the exception of any date rape drugs of course.
And no, I don't take any illicit drugs myself. Fuck that.

 

[Vimana]

Are you kidding? With drugs legalized tons of gangs would be gone. A lot of huge gangs are based on drug trafficking.

 

[Einherjar86]

Sarcasm aside^......

Legalising it, as in regulating it, won't necessarily solve any problems at all.
Take the simple issue of pricing. Making it affordable could put potentially addictive drugs too easily within the reach of curious "try anything once" types... OR, setting prices too high won't have any real impact on drug-related crime... i.e. inclined people will either try to get it on the cheap from their friendly neighbourhood dealer (= illegal drug trade alive and well), or they may turn to crime themselves to support their habit should they become addicted.

Well, setting prices lower and making them more easily available really has little effect, as far as I can tell. So what if it's easily within reach of the "try anything once" types; that's what it's been legalized for. If people are just going to ignore it then that negates the entire point. I'm not condoning drug use, but most people understand the consequences and will know when to stop. Setting prices too high won't affect much either. Cheap buys from a "friendly" neighborhood dealer won't happen frequently. Mostly it will only result in transactions among friends, which doesn't constitute as serious crime. People won't sell it for less because they had to spend more money to obtain it. The whole idea of the drug trade was that dealers could sell it for more than they bought it. Legalizing drugs will make that impossible (or at least harder).

 

[forbidden fruit]

"Are you kidding? With drugs legalized tons of gangs would be gone. A lot of huge gangs are based on drug trafficking."

No, I'm not kidding.
Bear in mind, the demand for drugs will always ensure that there will be those who want to capitalise on it.
Look at DVD's & CD's... perfectly legal & always have been... not overly expensive (depending on location of course) but piracy is rife.
DVD's & CD's aren't particularly addictive either...

"Well, setting prices lower and making them more easily available really has little effect, as far as I can tell. So what if it's easily within reach of the "try anything once" types; that's what it's been legalized for. If people are just going to ignore it then that negates the entire point. I'm not condoning drug use, but most people understand the consequences and will know when to stop. Setting prices too high won't affect much either. Cheap buys from a "friendly" neighborhood dealer won't happen frequently. Mostly it will only result in transactions among friends, which doesn't constitute as serious crime. People won't sell it for less because they had to spend more money to obtain it. The whole idea of the drug trade was that dealers could sell it for more than they bought it. Legalizing drugs will make that impossible (or at least harder)."

My concern is that the kind of people that are likely to want to try some harder drugs, are also the kind to not want to just try it once or twice.
(Yes, this is a generalisation... based on observations though!)
Heroin, as I understand it, is pretty unforgiving to the curious... though I can't speak from experience on that either.
So legalising ALL drugs seems to put these people at a huge risk, & I don't agree with that.

You don't think that if the prices are set high, that a horde of dealers & gangs won't fill the niche for cut-price drugs within days?
The demand will be there... possession charges will be gone... and I honestly can't see it be anything other than a free-for-all.

 

[Einherjar86]

You don't think that if the prices are set high, that a horde of dealers & gangs won't fill the niche for cut-price drugs within days?
The demand will be there... possession charges will be gone... and I honestly can't see it be anything other than a free-for-all.

You do bring up a good point, but I don't think it will result in as much crime as you think. Since it is legal, people won't have to buy it from others because they can get it for themselves. People will no longer sell drugs, especially not at lower prices, because they would be losing money (they might only do this with their close friends). Also, if this does happen, as you say, it will happen less frequently. If you talk to any high school student, he or she will probably tell you that the easiest thing for them to get was pot. This is because pot was illegal and had no limitations, only restrictions. Things like alcohol and prescription drugs however are much harder to obtain, because age verifications and doctors' notices are required. It's harder to find someone who distributes the legal stuff. In all likelihood, if pot was made legal and set with certain limitations, it might actually make it harder to obtain.

Something like heroin is a different story than pot. I've heard it's unforgiving too, as you said. But the thing is I don't believe I have the right to tell someone they can't try something if it's only going to inflict pain on themselves. We can warn people against drugs and inform them of their effects; but as I said earlier, we can't force them to put the needle down. Crimes committed while on drugs (for instance, if someone drives a car and hits someone while on heroin) should be treated as such, much the same as a driver under the influence of alcohol.

Perhaps an idea would be to legalize heroin but with certain limitations, thus making it harder for younger kids to obtain. When people are older, hopefully they'll think more about the consequences of their actions. And we basically already have access to heroin, but with limitations. I mean, Oxycodone is essentially a mild form of heroin. I say legalize it but with restrictions and higher prices. I really think it will make it more difficult to obtain. And it will eliminate the crime surrounding the buying and selling of heroin. But again, this is all my opinion.

 

[Blowtus]

The argument about cut price drugs is crap. Drug dealers would be into alcohol as well if there was much of a market for tax evasion.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

The most positive side is the boys in the hood will be out of work, so they will come out of the hood and start robbing houses, car jackings, kid nappings whos know how they will apply their resourcefulness, new capitalistic job opportunities that will be good.

The imporverished ************** companies will get a chance to make some hard cash for a change... that will be good... all while making junkies at the same time... win/win

"Date rap drugs now available over the counter, you'll find them in the aisle next to the condoms and gay porno mags"... multiple win there

Doctors will no longer have to subscribe morphine or any of those other drugs, you just go the the ******** and get what you want bro.

No more counting pills and taking an hour to fill prescription, we'll just make larger drug stores and line the shelves with bottles... it will be far better than any candy store... fuck the supermarket... who needs to eat ?

AND the quencher... all fully taxable to support our earnest political machine and their flavorful venture of the hour

TOTAL WIN DUDES!

...and it is the right of the companies and the individuals to engage in such transactions if they so chose. To the willing there is no injury.

 

[razoredge]

...and it is the right of the companies and the individuals to engage in such transactions if they so chose. To the willing there is no injury.

Brilliant deductive skills...Skippy... problem is addictive hard drugs are not legal and never will be... {suddenly he wakes up from his euphoric book and reality slaps him upside the face... how will he ever deal with tomorrow ?}
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The argument about cut price drugs is crap. Drug dealers would be into alcohol as well if there was much of a market for tax evasion.

Another good point added to the mix by Blotus, not that tax evasion is all of it.

 

[forbidden fruit]

The argument about cut price drugs is crap. Drug dealers would be into alcohol as well if there was much of a market for tax evasion.

I suppose that does depend on how high the prices are set for legal purchase.
If someone wants to buy a particular drug, and it's, I don't know, $100 per gram, but they can buy it on the streets from some entrepreneurial gang/dealer who brews it in their lab & sells it for $50 per gram, who do you think they'll be more inclined to buy it from?

Say "they" set the price of alcohol well above the means of the average drinker... do you not think there'll be those who come in to provide a less expensive alternative?

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Brilliant deductive skills...Skippy... problem is addictive hard drugs are not legal and never will be... .

Not once did I say it was legal: in this case the law steps on the natural rights of both parties. Perhaps you have confused the notions of 'legal' and 'right'? That would explain much... anyway, it is your tax money that is being used to keep it this way; where is the outrage?

I could care less as I neither act as nor benefit from either party, nor finance this nonsense.

 

[razoredge]

In this case the law protects my rights. "You are a lowlife and you are doing something illegal" thereby keeps them in the criminal element and away from my air space

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Last I checked, no philosopher ever acknowledged the right to not be proximate to anyone who has smoked a joint or two recently in public. If on one's own property (air space inclusive), it is another thing altogether and one would be well within one's rights to remove the intoxicated party. The law does many things, most of them absurd, though what it protects is not in this case a right.

 

[Seditious]

The greater argument is whether government even has a legitimate power to control which substances citizens ingest.

exactly

an argument from consequences is just a red herring. we may as well be saying 'giving women the vote might cause unnecessary problems' as if that has something to do with the righteousness of our doing it... it's pathetic Utilitarianism

 

[Seditious]

Are you kidding? With drugs legalized tons of gangs would be gone. A lot of huge gangs are based on drug trafficking.

gone? lol, naive.

before they had meth, here, gangs focused on weed (much lower return on equity). they don't need these things.

if both are made legal, they'll focus more heavily on chopping cars, stealing scrap metal, stealing copper wire from power lines (I shit you not), burglary, and other such sources of income.

The only reason I would, if the leader of a nation, keep drugs illegal, would be because I considered myself incapable of competently enforcing the laws, and wanted to simply 'give the gangs something to keep them quiet', so that they don't invest in these crimes people don't want, and instead just supply what service people should be allowed to enjoy.

 

[Seditious]

Now stop trying to appeal to everyone's emotions by evoking visions of opium dens.

appeal to emotion is all this guy has. when you can't make an argument for the legitimacy of something, all you can do is try manipulative a-logical tactics.

Vegans do the same thing since their cause lacks merit.

 

[Seditious]

...and it is the right of the companies and the individuals to engage in such transactions if they so chose. To the willing there is no injury.

Brilliant deductive skills...Skippy... problem is addictive hard drugs are not legal and never will be...

time and again you demonstrate how you don't at all care for philosophy... why do you keep coming here?

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say: we don't give two shits how pessimistic you are about the prospects for a reason-governed world.

 

[razoredge]

time and again you demonstrate how you don't at all care for philosophy... why do you keep coming here?

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say: we don't give two shits how pessimistic you are about the prospects for a reason-governed world.

No sorry, that has nothing to do with philosophy but with capitalistic hogishness and political views. In fact seems void of rational philosophy.

Myself and a equally if not larger percentage of the population does not give two shits what a handful of euphoric dreaming idealists propose from within the fantacy of their minds either. Realitys a bitch, but alas we all have to deal with it.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Yes, reality is a bitch, and people like you made it that way. Save your drivel for elsewhere, you petulant intellectual Lilliputian.

 

[Einherjar86]

Myself and a equally if not larger percentage of the population does not give two shits what a handful of euphoric dreaming idealists propose from within the fantacy of their minds either. Realitys a bitch, but alas we all have to deal with it.

There was a time when the idea of black slaves being real men (much less being free men) wasn't realistic. There was a time when women's suffrage wasn't realistic. Hell, there was a time when the idea of space travel wasn't realistic.

What the hell are you trying to prove? Instead of worrying about what's "realistic," why don't you try focusing on what's possible.

 

[razoredge]

Yes, reality is a bitch, and people like you made it that way. Save your drivel for elsewhere, you petulant intellectual Lilliputian.

I will speak my mind where I please. I would suggest you stop the personal insults being how moderation seems void of the idea.