QRV said:
Personally, I think that there's an innate, archetypal knowledge of the existence of a spiritual realm (call it instinct, collective unconscious, whatever) as opposed to the concrete tridimensional realm. Myths, dreams, artworks, philosophies, etc., all around the world and throughout history pretty much have shown shared motifs on this.
Myths, dreams, art, philosophy, etc., have never
shown the
existence of such a realm, they have only shown the power of the human mind, its creativity, and its capabilities.
QRV said:
ian.de said:
This is all a product of human consciousness of consciousness. You can think about thinking about thinking about thinking, no other animal can do that. And because of this, we can brew up some crazy shit in our heads.
This is the most nonsensical crap I've read in months. What the hell was that? A parody of postmodern thinking?
First of all, that was a childish response.
Second of all, I understand what ian.de is talking about there, and it isn't nonsense, it's a real area of debate in the field of consciousness. Unlike what ian.de said earlier, there is no evidence that tells us that animals aren't conscious at all, in fact certain behaviors show otherwise. We can't possibly know for sure ..perhaps they are very much conscious of their existence and the fact that they are an entity in an out-there world, but since they biologically lack the complex communication skills that humans possess, they are very much limited in conveying any of it, either to each other or to people who study them. But it is a currently-discussed and debated scientific topic that, while other animals may be conscious and may think, our species is easily conscious of
being conscious. We think about thinking. And that this may be one of the main reasons for our extensive imagination.
QRV said:
Jesus.
*sigh* *deep breath*
Please, explain to me how exactly are we close to understanding evolution, let alone the beginning of the universe or the very essence of science itself? What the hell have you been reading? Or have you been reading anything at all?
Come on man, stop making shit up and get a fucking education.
The very basic underlying essence of the universe, its beginning, its real nature, and its bounds are of course very far from known. They are all nothing but theories based on interpretations of limited evidence ..exciting as it may be. I don't know what you mean by essence of science..
However, evolution is
very well understood. And it's all out there. You advocate reading, perhaps you'd be interested.
And lastly, as to your rude response, I don't see anything in that particular post of ian.de's that would qualify as "making shit up" any more than your thoughts of your innate spiritual realm.
hyena said:
i have a question for all the debating agnostic/atheists: why are you so rabid about people who think differently? it's a commonplace that the religious try to force their opinion on others, or despise non-believers for being "sinners" and "evil", but looking at this thread (even after allowing for the famous "death metal forum proviso") i confirm my feeling that these days it's actually some secularists, rather than christians, being aggressive. in other words, why do you care to tell people they are silly or superstitious or whatever based on their religious beliefs? how do these hurt you in your life?
I had been thinking about how to put down some thoughts into writing (mostly about evolution as requested). I wanted to see how I could make it as concrete as possible and not write a textbook in this forum, which wouldn't exactly be appreciated by myself or anyone else here. But reading this last post of yours made me realize a few things.
I didn't think these discussions were being seen as rabid and aggressive agendas with which to attack people. And I didn't want them to be. But.. I do understand. You're right. I understand how it's seen that way from the perspective of many of you. And with that, there really isn't much left I can say.
The beliefs of people have not hurt me in any way to this day (though I have reason to believe they may in the far future). In fact, I know someone who became hands-down a better person because he "found Jesus" and I think it would be good for him, and those around him, that he remain that way. My opinion of religion in general and its effects on the world as a whole I will keep to myself.
I apologize to those who got offended. And I'm now going to try to step away towards the sidelines and join
Lina, who in a way probably had the most sense in the thread.
