QRV
historyphobic
Well, to be honest with you, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. You talk about metacognition ..I don't think we're in the same page. I was just mentioning that I think I know what ian.de was talking about. I had recently read about studies and debates on consciousness, and what I said wouldn't really have been an argument from me. I just pointed out that some of the scientists debating this think that it (being aware of our consciousness) may be a reason why people have extensive imaginations. But eitherway, I don't know where the misunderstanding is, but nothing that I was referring to deviated toward getting that 'meta' prefix ..it was a scientific source, not jumping any gaps toward the purely philosophical or the paranormal.
And maybe I don't understand what you meant to say with this:..but if I were to take it as is, the only thing I'd have to say is that I strongly disagree: Cognition is what's responsible for all that a sentient living thing perceives and processes in its mind. All the sensory input, and all the mental contemplations and imagery, including abstract ideas like something with a "symbolic" interpretation. I can tell you that my brain is biologically equipped to process information of the world around me through my sensory input receptors, be it to duck when a bottle is thrown at me ..or to read and understand a phrase from Shakespeare that has a symbolic meaning.
And I guess in the end I didn't feel like debating any further this thing that you and ian.de have maintained. And part of the reason now, I suppose, would be in the fact that phrases like that above are used in these debates. If the defense is that something is too concrete, too real, too rational, and too materialistic and open to understanding or explanation, to be used against something ..then what's the point of trying to argue against that something and those who defend it?
I mean, that's all I have on my side ..reason and reality. I don't have anything else.
And it's like hyena said, we (non-believers) can just as easily just let it all be. Once something comes beyond what is known, and it comes to a point where the next step is personal opinion based on emotion and pure faith, then we are all free to make this choice.
I know what you mean. But what I was saying is that, at least in my opinion, cognitive-behavioral theories doesn't cover all of the human mind. They're based on conscious perception, reflective responses and logical thinking. But that's it, they don't go any further.
However, if you take the theories about the unconscious into account, the whole thing changes. The unconscious seems almost unsoundable, and at some point it might even look chaotic, precisely because it covers far more territory than mere thinking traits: it goes throught he emotional, the sensitive, the intuition, etc. A study of the unconscious must cover all of personality, where consciousness is just a small part of it. So when I was talking about the symbolic, I meant it on this sense: the symbol as a emotionally charged image, an autonomous and spontaneous Jungian "archetype", and not a mere intellectual allegory. The symbol would point towards the unknown, numinous and trascendental. It's not so much about what you think about a certain image, but what you feel about it, what it manages to stir inside of you.
This is part of reality. Concrete means objective, means external, but as long as it doesn't join its subjective and internal counterpart, the picture remains incomplete. The world isn't all about logic, there's a strongly irrational part to it. This has been proved even in physics and mathematics, but in no other place it is so evident as in the human mind. Religious revelation, as well as pretty much every artistic and creative inspiration, sprouts from this irrational part of the mind, which then must dialogue with the more logical and ordering consciousness so to establish a sense. If this didn't happen, if only the thinking part acted there, then we wouldn't have any classic artworks, because their spontaneity would be lost, and so their ability to be reinterpreted in different times and contexts. In this sense, art is deeply intertwined with the religious.
Too concrete doesn't mean too real, just too one-dimensional. The religious doesn't exclude logic from it, but compells to an integration between both reason and emotion so it can be truly functional. If religion gets too irrational, we only get fundamentalism and fanatism; if, by the contrary, it is supported by rational thinking, then we may get a more appropiate and true spiritual guidance. On the other side, if we get too rational, we can become blind to an enormously important part of ourselves.