2013 Next Gen consoles

I think we are just disagreeing on how badly consoles perform in relation to PC's.
Console users, to me, are the equivalent of people who spend their entire life listening to 128kbps yt rips.
They are still hearing the music, but..... you know?!

I completely understand the practicality/cost. But I don't understand how you can suggest that the difference is so minor, it's enormous.
 
I think we are just disagreeing on how badly consoles perform in relation to PC's.
Console users, to me, are the equivalent of people who spend their entire life listening to 128kbps yt rips.
They are still hearing the music, but..... you know?!

I completely understand the practicality/cost. But I don't understand how you can suggest that the difference is so minor, it's enormous.

To this point, consoles provide a simple plug and play experience. You whack a HDMI cable into the thing... connect it to your TV, and you're ready to play. Well, that's how the XBOX was with me.

Versus choosing a graphics card, choosing a processor, getting the right motherboard for the combination... having to fuck about building the machine, etc... - sure you can get off the shelf pc's, but even those require some tweakery.

It's like a real amp versus an Axe-FX. No constest in terms of the raw plug and play ease of use. imho.
 
Yeah I know, that's a pretty simple objective argument that no-one in their right minds would argue over.

Consoles are far more practical and easier to deal with than a PC.

But, I just feel that console users don't actually understand how poor a version of any given game they are being delivered, when compared to their PC counterparts.

They admit that PC looks great, but don't admit that consoles look straight up bad by the contemporary standard.
 
ehhh... I don't think the differences are so major personally. For me though... I work at a fucking desk the majority of my life y'know... I don't want to be sat at a desk during play-time too. So a console in the lounge was really the best option for me - it's all about making compromises and balancing things out. I'll take the slight graphical hit to Skyrim just to be able to sit in my lounge on the sofa with a few beers, instead of being propped up at a desk my whole life. It's a comfort thing for me.

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Not categorical proof by any means.. but I just see "different" not better and worse.
 
Stills won't show that much difference, which is one of the reasons why most "consolers" won't accept it.
I can assure you though, as someone who owns both an xbox360 and a (reasonably) high end pc, the difference is enormous.
 
Apparently you didn't read me ! Yes consoles perform badly in comparison, but they are not directly comparable, wether it is in price, practicality, reliability, size, number of potential players, the screen used, opportunities of evolution, etc. The thread was about next gen consoles, not again a "PC can do better" thread because we all know that if you remove all other parameters a PC would win, I have games on my W7 partition for that reason. I disagree for the comparison with 128kbps, because they have no excuse for not getting 320kbps anymore, while consoles have their advantages. Unless you only care about resolution/textures/fps, then it's fine but some wouldn't

I don't suggest it's "so minor". But keeping cost in mind, how in 2006 could you perform like a PS/Xbox with a $500 computer from 2006 ? I don't know if that is still gonna be the case in 2013 with this generation but so far I don't see how a current $450 computer (I don't know how much these consoles will cost in US dollars so say in the 500/600 ballpark) could generate that FFXV demo live in 1080p @60hz. Just checking on the biggest (not the cheapest though but we're talking 5 to 10% difference) french website, for that price you don't even necessarily have a 4core CPU (I'm talking PC pre-made, in a bundle), nor the latest 1GB graphic card. So on top of that if you add connectivity, maybe SSD or a big HD.. Of course the difference is enormous between my 2006 PS3 and my 2011 W7 partition, but that's only normal

@drew_drummer : Yeah forgot Civilization I+II ! I still play Civ II regularly (I decided I would try Final Fantasy XIII, I have never played it because I didn't have a PS3 at that time and the FF series has disappointed me after FFX but I'm gonna give it a try, at worst it's gonne be a good game, at best it can be epic.)
 
To play the devil's advocate drew_drummer, the pictures you posted don't compare the XBox to a decent PC setup where one would have tweaked the .ini file and installed texture mods
 
Like I said, I'm not a console basher, I like them. The reason I drew a comparison to YT rips, is because the people that say consoles look good don't know any better, in the same way that those listening to crappy rips don't.
The cost/value is completely irrelevant to my argument.
And that's precisely the point, you can't compare current hardware with hardware from 2006 because it would be outdated and discontinued. Unlike consoles, which remain outdated but stay in production.

Anyway, I'll stop all this PC talk. Adieu.
 
I'm with Mat and Drew on this, I'd much rather spend my limited disposable income on music and recording gear than funneling thousands over the years into a gaming PC, mainly because no matter how good the graphics may be (and that's all we're talking about here) I just outright refuse to believe a well-optimized console version can't consistently deliver 7.5-8/10ths of the PC graphics experience overall (key word), which, for the cost but more importantly comfort/convenience factor (couch, big TV, handheld controller) wins every time.

And yes, PS3 versions usually are the shittiest, so usually not a fair comparison!
 
How am I trolling? GTA and Ico may be a few years older but they're still sequels that are only a year or two old. And none of the games I mentioned are FPS games. And they still make Resident Evils and the like. I hear good things about Dead Space, maybe check that out. There's a lot of titles out there. Just deciding they're all shit for whatever reason doesnt sound like you're giving them a look whatsoever.
 
The thing is that the hardware in these consoles will be underutilized at first, and by the time developers catch up PC hardware will have shot ahead again. These devices shoot for lifetimes in the realm of half a decade, if not more, and that means the ever-evolving PC hardware world will leave them in the dust again before long.
Honestly the word from the industry guys I know is that they were underhelmed with the prototype boxes they were getting from microsoft and sony. Who knows what will make it to market but it sounds like they may be hamstrung out of the gate.
OTOH, I'm a console guy and don't really care about max performance if the game is good. I still play ps2 games happily.
 
For me it's all about the games. I play Open World, Sports, Action and some RPGs. I like plug & play, I like my standard X-Box controller, I want great games, great graphics and no cheap Android stuff and I'd love to be able to play without TV.

So I guess I'll buy the new X-Box and I hope the games will be streamable on a device the size of a PSVita, That would be perfect for me.
 
How am I trolling? GTA and Ico may be a few years older but they're still sequels that are only a year or two old. And none of the games I mentioned are FPS games. And they still make Resident Evils and the like. I hear good things about Dead Space, maybe check that out. There's a lot of titles out there. Just deciding they're all shit for whatever reason doesnt sound like you're giving them a look whatsoever.

Ico is 11 years old, and its sequel is 8/9 years old, the PS3 wasn't even out by then !

The thing why someone else and me found the post ironic is that most of what you have mentioned is not the type of games we are searching for and exactly what we were criticizing as being the current money makers on consoles. Also, you are mentioning almost exclusively licenses that are releasing sequels after sequels (GTA, Resident Evil, sports/racing games). These don't satisfy everyone, I mean I liked the first GTA (although I prefered Driver back in the days) but it never made me dream and I never got interested in the new ones. And yeah, Dead Space and Mass Effect are some of the few original games of these past years. Still, what we miss is that era in the 90s where every month there would be a new videogame. A "lot" is very subjective to you imo, last time I went to the gamestore I found it quite empty in interesting releases and there were so many Fifa/PES/Cod/GTA available including all the previous ones in Platinum next to them, it's definitely not like in the PS1/early PS2 era (sorry for always referring to playstation but that's what I had back then) where there would be shitloads of games including random ones which sometimes happened to be cool. I also kinda miss the plethora of japanese RPG games, some of them were just gems. I think the big licenses like Fifa or COD are such moneymakers (Call of Duty is worth more than the Avatar movie IIRC) that they draw all attention from the videogame companies developing them. Fair enough for them because at the end of the day a company's goal is to make profit but it's a bit too bad imo.

To get back on the topic, so basically what you guys are saying is that it could be the last generation of consoles of this kind ? Since the further we go, the less their interest in terms of performances vs PC, and the more videogames will be downloadable as opposed to be released on physical media ?

I'm a bit skeptic about Sony's strategy to bound your games to your PSN ID (I suppose that's how they would do it ? or would it be to the console ID ?), while I don't care about the fact they wanna avoid us to lend a game to a friend (so that in the end the friend doesn't buy the game himself), I can see it being annoying. It's not gonna affect myself in any case but I understand the frustration

I thought of something funny about the pricetag of consoles. For something unrelated, I wanted to check the evolution of our minimum wage salary, and with inflation it has increased by 15/20% since 2005/6. So what was the price for those consoles back then, would be effectively equivalent today to their 2006 price + around 80/100e. I would be happy paying 100e more and having drastically better CPU/graphic card that would make developers happier.
 
I think the biggest issue now is that the "games" industry, is not serving the same consumer base that it once was.
You see all the big hardware people shifting towards mobile/family gaming, a completely different section of people than the "traditional" market.
The issue is that that's not really the "gamer" market as we know it, it's a new market of people who play video games, as opposed to "gamers".
I feel that a distinction has to be made. People at the top of the big companies that actually control the market, see this new generation as the most profitable (and it is) so they make hardware to mainly suit their needs.
Which leaves "gamers" with stagnating hardware, at least in terms of the performance aspects, which actually allow for innovation. They focus massively on new controller, interface or cloud technologies.
And as I believe Gabe Newell has said very recently, the hands have the highest "bandwidth" in respect to controlling physical communication.

Anyway, I may have put my point across quite ham-fistedly, but I think that makes sense?
 
@ratsA : I think you're right, the emergence of facebook/mobile/iOs games is shifting the industry, because they create a very good income, same for the in-app purchase type of games. I don't know if it blocks the hardware market, I honestly think this is more due to the current IT paradigm which is that CPUs are now more than enough to handle new games, and it's now possible to build a "beast" for a thousand dollars, which would have cost in comparison 3 or 4 times that price 10 years ago to run Flight Simulator at max settings (remember when you first bought Oblivion as well ?). I think it's more the actual game development than the hardware which is shifting.

To be fair, I frankly welcome cloud gaming, I honestly hope this is the future, I'm just afraid of the control it could give to companies (the DRM on Steam are honestly annoying at times, I had trouble having skyrim work offline when a bug occured and it requested to connect Steam, while I was obviously somewhere internet was not available). But in essence I think this is the future, that would be neat if instead of buying a console you could pay a monthly fee to the service (say Sony or Microsoft) to be able to play their games, and the power and quality of games would evolve with time while you don't possess anything at home. As usual, it changes the "game" completely : you don't buy hardware so you cannot sell it once done with it, but at the same time it offers practicality, etc. If this happened, you couldn't go nostalgia by opening your secret SuperNintendo box with you old Mario or Zelda cartridges anymore. Still, that would be cool if classic consoles would still exist, because it just works well and gamers have been happy with them since the very beginning of their existence.

Funnily, I have been playing FFXIII since I opened this thread, and can see some of these evolution in this game as well eventhough it's already kinda old. Compared to previous games, this one is dumbed down and ultra linear, and it has been apparently officially declared this is on purpose of attracting casual gamers. Still, the latest call of duty (only) has sold twice more in a month than FFXIII did since the beginning... That makes me sad !
 
PC hardware develops separately to that of consoles, until now each generation of consoles has been as powerful as they can be at that point in time, pretty much.
The difference now is that the people who make the consoles don't need to concern themselves with that because that's not what their main market is concerned with, this has been affirmed by what developers who have received development kits for the next-gen consoles are saying (as egan pointed out). The reason that I feel there needs to be more of a distinction made by those in charge, is so that all consumer groups can continue to be catered for, rather than one being left in the cold for the benefit of the other.
 
I have a bad feeling that game is going to basically be a slightly interactive movie. Sure it looks good and Juno is the star but is it really going to be that cool? I have not seen a true gameplay trailer for it yet.
 
I don't know who juno is, my point is that at least they are trying. I like this kind of initiatives. It's totally gonna be movie-like, i'm fine with it, that's why I have been hooked by the video.