2016 Presidential Election

[EternalMetal]

He's clueless on foreign policy. An interviewer asked him to name a foreign leader and he could not come up with a name. He's uninformed on a number of things that are important to the position unfortunately. As much as I want to support a third party candidate, Jill Stein seems like the best option third parties are putting forward. But there's no way she can win the popular vote being more liberal than Bernie sanders.

Not to mention the Aleppo moment and the fact that policy-wise he isnt even close to being libertarian. Johnson is a fucking idiot. As for Jill Stein, she is like that aging hippy grandma who still drops acid and wants to fuck. Crazy bitch.

Regarding that video of Trump talking badly about women, what else was he to say? He didnt say it? Ive seen the video, and it was obviously just banter. Ive seen guys talk like this many times, and it's almost always in jest. Definitely hurts him in the public eye, the best thing he could do would be to just move on from it. Trump counter-punching later on with mentioning how she publicly defamed the women that Bill exploited (pan to Bills guilt face) was great.

Anybody see this epic troll by Trump last night? - https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/785299709342654465

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Trump counter-punching later on with mentioning how she publicly defamed the women that Bill exploited (pan to Bills guilt face) was great.

Anybody see this epic troll by Trump last night? - https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/785299709342654465

Yeah that's when he really started to find his groove I thought. The opening moments were awkward as fuck, jumping from the whole leaked tape issue to "We live in a world where we have Isis..." and the like but really if you listened to all the "experts" leading up to the debate he was actually doing what they all said he should do which was try to move onto issues that actually matter, albeit in a bit of a dodgy way. He was pretty much in "fuck you" mode the rest of the night which, although repetitive at times was most welcomed. The bickering with the moderators was entertaining as well. Anderson Cooper is such a bitch.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I think Johnson is a mixture of dumb and overly safe. I find it very difficult to believe he couldn't name a single world leader, and the question he was asked was if there was one he respected. He should have just said "No, I don't respect any of them" but instead he tried to look self-deprecating which never works in politics. The Aleppo thing is funny, but we've been involved in the Middle-East for 70 years with no positive results, so I don't see how a guy with no interest in the region period is any worse.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Just finished watching the second presidential debate.

I don't remember where I posted this... maybe in the News Thread, I really can't keep up with how many threads this sort of conversation is being talked about. However, as much as people say Hillary is crooked and a liar, I see these same exact flaws in Donald Trump too. He attacks her for not for not getting rid of loopholes that the rich take advantage of, but honestly I doubt he truly gives a shit. He will continue taking advantage because he has money and he can.

I don't trust what he has to say, and he's basically too much of a wildcard and a liar to be trusted. I mean they both lie, but his supporters are quick to see her lies but don't care about his lies. Okay, he "plans" to cut taxes and get rid of Obamacare.... honestly, i doubt he'll even do that. You can't just start cutting taxes out of nowhere with no plan to supplement that money.

This election is a joke. I'm really embarrassed having to talk about this nonsense to my students. First of all, it's not even PG....

 

[EternalMetal]

I don't remember where I posted this... maybe in the News Thread, I really can't keep up with how many threads this sort of conversation is being talked about. However, as much as people say Hillary is crooked and a liar, I see these same exact flaws in Donald Trump too. He attacks her for not for not getting rid of loopholes that the rich take advantage of, but honestly I doubt he truly gives a shit. He will continue taking advantage because he has money and he can.

The only credit that I can give him is that he unapologetically criticized the system that allows the rich to take advantage in such a blatant way that no politician with rich donors and special interests would be bold enough to do. Probably a better chance of him changing it than Hillary considering this, but he is also an unapologetic opportunist. On one hand I can see him throwing a wrench in the system by implementing these fixes, but on the other hand he might just come out and say it cant be done with the current government.

I don't trust what he has to say, and he's basically too much of a wildcard and a liar to be trusted. I mean they both lie, but his supporters are quick to see her lies but don't care about his lies.

lol, this is definitely true. It was abundantly clear since he started running that he wasnt the most honest of businessmen, but his supporters have grown to accept this to the point where they no longer care about the revealing of any leaks or dishonest actions of his. I think that it all boils down to the idea that none of his crookedness involved the exploitation of government capacities, while nearly all of Hillary's transgressions do (obviously because she is a politician).

Okay, he "plans" to cut taxes and get rid of Obamacare.... honestly, i doubt he'll even do that. You can't just start cutting taxes out of nowhere with no plan to supplement that money.

Well tbh the previously crumbling health insurance industry was better off pre-Obamacare, but repealing and going back to an open-market system wont automatically make things better. As someone involved in the healthcare industry I acknowledge Obamacare as a failure, but a plan to make it better is needed on top of just repealing it. People forget that a major reason why Obama got elected 8 years ago is because he had what people thought was a good plan. But in the end it just put a hell of a lot more money in the pockets of big insurance. Maybe I just havent read enough of Trump's policy, but as far as I know he doesnt have a plan to fix this ongoing problem past repealing Obamacare and attempting to reset ourselves back to the same dilemma 8 years ago.

This election is a joke. I'm really embarrassed having to talk about this nonsense to my students. First of all, it's not even PG....

Really, good luck making sense of this in a way that kids can comprehend. This election has so many political and social forces at play that most adults I know dont even understand what is going on. I dont even things kids these days can comprehend a world without the internet of social media, which has undoubtedly played a huge role in this election. It's the biggest paradigm shift in politics since the rise of TV news media. Getting kids to understand how past presidential candidates could get away with mass deception while only giving the media information that the politicians want them to know would probably be a tough concept to teach. I guess all of the misogynist crap gets a little awkward, but I think kids even at a young age understand this stuff these days (or at least have exposure to it. The internet isnt exactly PG either). Btw, what kind of views do your students hold?

 

[Dak]

I remember being called racist and a variety of other things because I said up front Obamacare was just more cronyism.

 

[Baroque]

I agree that Obamacare is garbage and a scam for insurance companies to make money off the federal government and middle class taxpayers. Better proposals were rejected by the republican house however and This is what they accepted. Probably because republicans own the insurance companies and this doesn't raise taxes to give us a proper healthcare system. It's not entirely Obama's fault but he should not have caved and kept fighting until a better system was accepted. I'd prefer the next president scrap the whole thing and start from scratch.

 

[Dak]

I assume "better" includes "single payer"?

 

[arg]

I think a "shitty version" of single payer would work where they take much less of our taxes than they would have, and those who get sick must pay extra depending on how expensive their disease is, and those who can't afford it get cheapass minimal treatment not curative but to keep them semi-comfortable until they die.

But then you can opt out of that "shitty single payer" and not be taxed for it and buy your own private insurance if you want.

 

[Baroque]

I assume "better" includes "single payer"?

Honestly the old system was better than this, single payer might be better than this also. I'm up for any kind of change to the health care system, it's worse than before. No one should have to pay a tax for Not receiving services. No one should be forced into an insurance scam. Another problem with this system is you can have health insurance from a non-Obamacare provider and still be forced to pay the damn tax. It's garbage.

yeah I wanted government run health care with the option for private insurance if you can afford it, but I would prefer the old system over what we ended up with. My point was that it was not all Obama's fault like many seem to imply. It was the repubs that gimped his proposal and then passed what we have now

 

[Dak]

Honestly the old system was better than this, single payer might be better than this also. I'm up for any kind of change to the health care system, it's worse than before. No one should have to pay a tax for Not receiving services. No one should be forced into an insurance scam. Another problem with this system is you can have health insurance from a non-Obamacare provider and still be forced to pay the damn tax. It's garbage.

yeah I wanted government run health care with the option for private insurance if you can afford it, but I would prefer the old system over what we ended up with. My point was that it was not all Obama's fault like many seem to imply. It was the repubs that gimped his proposal and then passed what we have now

Well it annoyed me that the "obstruction" wasn't productive. The original proposal wasn't any better, it was just differently bad. The cost in medical care is high in part because of the already high levels of subsidization. Another reason is the increasingly unhealthy lifestyles people live. Throwing more money at the problem was bound to grow the problem, and of course now in the process further enrich the insurance companies.

I am not categorically opposed to insurance like I see some here and there (not on this board) suggesting, but mandatory insurance for existing just doesn't work. Hamfisted policy proposal doesn't remotely capture the absurd nature of Obamacare. It's an unfortunate fact of a finite world that some people won't be able to afford health insurance or healthcare, and also that some of those people will be the most likely to need it. It would definitely be better to empower responsible related charities than go the route we have.

 

[Satanstoenail]

This election is a joke.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

@EternalMetal

I don't think he has a plan regarding health insurance other to repeal Obamacare. They asked him several times during the second debate and his response was just to repeal it because it's "terrible and a failure." I do realize, though, that Obamacare isn't good. I'm sure you have more insight on how insurances may work since you work with one, but I also know there was a huge problem with people not having insurance too. Going back means uninsuring like 90 million Americans, which is a problem too. I remember in high school, some of my classmates didn't because their parents did not have insurance. But Obamacare is expensive and definitely needs fixing.


It's funny the kids have some understanding. I showed them a picture of Trump and everyone immediately went "ewwww!" (I mean the faces he makes when talking aren't pleasant and just look douchey but still.) I did a basic lesson about the presidential election I.e. Who's running( where they are from and their jobs before running for president) their policies (basic), and who typically supports them. My students are mostly black and Hispanic with a few Asian (2) and a tiny bit of white (I have 1 white kid in each class). It's also a title 1 school, meaning the kids come from poorer families. It was more just showing them short clips of the two speaking and asking them questions on what they think. My Hispanic kids don't like Trump at all while the black kids admire his boldness but agree that he doesn't know how to say things in the correct manner. I'd say they are mostly left or conservative left for sure.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of his supporters show up to vote on the 28th and act like the election was rigged.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

The Aleppo thing is funny, but we've been involved in the Middle-East for 70 years with no positive results, so I don't see how a guy with no interest in the region period is any worse.

Yes, why would any President care about the home territory of ISIS. They've only recruited over 100,000 people from 80 countries, occupied an area populated with millions, and inspired killings on US soil. No biggie.

 

[rms]

100k? I thought ISIS was like 40k strong at best?

 

[Dak]

They've only recruited over 100,000 people from 80 countries, occupied an area populated with millions, and inspired killings on US soil. No biggie.

Are you talking about ISIS or the US Military?

 

[Dak]

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11...nconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/

These are smart, rational people falling for a scam. Why? It’s in part because Twitter fosters this group-think and lack of critical thought — you just click a button and, with little effort, you’ve spread whatever you want people to believe — but it’s also because they’re so convinced of the righteousness of their cause (electing Clinton/defeating Trump) that they have cast all limits and constraints to the side, believing that any narrative or accusation or smear, no matter how false or conspiratorial, is justified in pursuit of it.

But while Donald Trump’s candidacy poses grave dangers, so does group-think righteousness, particularly when it engulfs those with the greatest influence. The problem is that none of this is going to vanish after the election. This election-year machine that has been constructed based on elite unity in support of Clinton — casually dismissing inconvenient facts as fraudulent to make them disappear, branding critics and adversaries as tools or agents of an Enemy Power bent on destroying America — is a powerful one. As is seen here, it is capable of implanting any narrative, no matter how false; demonizing any critic, no matter how baseless; and riling up people to believe they’re under attack.

For a long time, liberals heralded themselves as part of the “reality-based community” and derided conservatives as faith-based victims of “epistemic closure.” The dynamics seen here are anything but byproducts of reason.

 

[rms]

But don't worry, 11 people think the 19th Amendment should be repealed

 

[Baroque]

The types of articles you read and post are something else.

For a long time, liberals heralded themselves as part of the “reality-based community” and derided conservatives as faith-based victims of “epistemic closure.”

This statement is exactly the type of strawman you throw around that absolutely falls apart in seconds. Saying "liberals do x" is a strawman unless you give examples of liberals that do x. I've never once heard a single liberal describe liberals as a “reality-based community” and conservatives as "faith-based victims of epistemic closure.” This is the author talking out of his ass making shit up. How can you not see that man.

The dynamics seen here are anything but byproducts of reason.

I agree, the dynamics of this article are anything but byproducts of reason. This is just a garbage throw away statement though that attempts to put the author on an invisible high ground without putting in any actual effort. And no actual high ground to stand on.

This election-year machine that has been constructed based on elite unity in support of Clinton — casually dismissing inconvenient facts as fraudulent to make them disappear, branding critics and adversaries as tools or agents of an Enemy Power bent on destroying America — is a powerful one.

It's how politics work these days and Trump has absolutely done the same thing as the bold there.

Underlined, Trump has brought that on himself by publicly asking Putin for help to bring down Clinton. He also did the same thing as the underlined suggesting that Obama is not an American and is muslim.

Trump "brands critics and adversaries" as all kinds of shit every day on his twitter. That's like his thing, taking down other people with insults on twitter.