A few thoughts on the evolution of metal.

[mutantllama]

Well last night I was laying on my bed and wondering what is happening to metal right now.

First of all, how much more extreme can metal get? Ever since the beginning of the genre it has always been getting more extreme, with a few exceptions such as power metal, etc. Were people who first listened Black Sabbath did they think "This shit is extreme!" and did they think that it couldn't get any more extreme? Then bands like Venom came along and made things more extreme, and made the lyrics darker. Then thrash came along with bands like Kreator and Slayer. I wonder what peoples thoughts were when they first heard Hell Awaits for the first time. Then Death metal started growing. Bands like Morbid Angel came. Then you have the second wave of Black metal with raw production like Transylvanian Hunger. But is it possible to get anymore extreme than now? Also things got darker. Look at Candlemass. They had a very dark atmosphere for their time.



Heres another thought. Big genres like Thrash, death, black, power, etc. aren't being developed like they used to. Since when was a big genre made? Don't get me wrong, they are still being changed every day. But they aren't being created. I wish I was around when they were being created, and heard it for the first time.

Anyways, those are just a few thoughts in my head.

*edit* I think this is the best post I've ever made!

 

[The Ozzman]

This is actually a good topic. Too bad I actually have shit to do today

 

[mutantllama]

Shit I forgot to add Doom metal.

 

[skeptik]

'Extreme' as interpreted as 'avant-garde' and cutting edge if you will leaves open the possibility of many avenues for evolution, which seems most often today to take the form of merging with other styles of music, such as industrial, noise, martial, ambient, shoegaze, etc.

As far as the question of genres, just like any other historical term, they were largely constructed and cemented after the fact. I also wish I was around in the 80s, because the music was much more interesting when it wasn't locked into rigidly defined ideas of what 'Thrash Metal' or 'Black Metal should sound like. There was a pioneering mentality that existed then (and rightfully so) that is rarely, at best, witnessed today, for the obvious reason that much of the foreseeable terrain has already been explored. Whether or not there is another horizon and what that horizon might be is up to the next generation to determine...whether or not it's worth exploring is up to you.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

I think it will keep evolving just the same as it always has. People never expect the next thing that happens in music to happen, it always seems like there's nothing else to do. But all it takes is one band with one good idea to make a new genre. I mean, just like you said. People were probably standing around saying "damn, this thrash shit is HEAVY! You couldn't get any more heavy than this." But while they were saying that, a bunch of bands were sayings to themselves "screw these normal vocals, lets sing all twisted and distorted like we're demons with knives in our throats."

I'm probably a heretic but I don't buy the first wave of black metal consisting of black metal bands, so to me black metal started at the start of the 90s. I don't think that's too long ago for a major new gnere coming out. The 00s to me have been the decade not of new genres but of everybody stepping it up a notch in every way. Everything's heavier than it's ever been before. And yeah, that's been done how many times over the close-to 4 decades since metal was invented. But the fact that it's already happened so many times suggests to me that it will definetly happen again.

There hasn't maybe been a new 'big' genre, but there've certainly been some new genres and advancements. I think there is without a doubt a hell of a lot of territory left to explore, I'm worried that maybe people are a little too complacent now. More than ever before, there's a million different things you can do within the confines of the norm. Everybody wants to do something that hasn't been done before, but they look up everything they can think of and all of it has already been done! The more that gets made, the harder it is to go outisde of what's already been done. But I think metal is unequivocably stronger than ever right now. We may or may not have the best bands right now, but we have more good metal bands than any other time period has had. So even if people have become complacent, there are so many bands that it's just a matter of time until people do make those new innovations and find out how to make Disgorge and Gorgoroth sound like total sissies.

 

[HaggardBastard]

I posted a topic on this a few months ago.

Mutantllama, I've had a lot of the same thoughts this past year as you seem to be having. Honestly, where can things go from here? Is there an extremity cap on metal, a point at which the genre can be no more extreme than it already is? Or are there dozens more untapped possibilities that have yet to be discovered and are merely waiting for someone to come along and look at things a bit differently?

I hate to say it, but in my opinion metal can't get much more extreme; it's already reached that cap, that ceiling. You've got the fastest bands in the world (death/grind), the slowest bands in the world (doom), the harshest (black and, though not metal, noise), the goriest and most offensive (grind again) and everything in between. However, what I do see happening is something that Necuratul pointed out: bands are no longer moving upwards in the stakes of extremity. Instead, having already slammed painfully into that ceiling, they're moving in the only direction left: sideways. Bands are incorporating elements from genres completely unrelated to metal into their styles. I see this more than anywhere else in black metal, with bands like Alcest (shoegaze), Blut Aus Nord (industrial), and Xasthur (ambient). There was also the metalcore explosion a few years back, and though metalcore has technically existed since the early crossover bands, the new wave of metalcore bands was completely unprecedented and, though I may hate them, sounded completely unlike anything any of us had ever heard before.

I don't like it any more than anybody else, but things really can't get much more extreme than they already are. I think metal will continue to look further afield for innovation, and it seems that hybrid genres, not necessarily new genres, will be the norm. Maybe all genres are hybrid genres? Hmm...

 

[Zephyrus]

I completely agree with HaggardBastard. The heaviness/speed/inacessbility cap has been struck, and has forced bands to innovate by means of horizontal integration.

Most metal genres have ceased their stylistic evolution within the bounds of what is considered metal. The new trend is not creating genres, but by fusion with non-metal music. And I'm not just talking about adding keyboards or techno drums to an otherwise standard metal formula. Metal is being spliced to the point that there are tons of bands who are just as much a non-metal type of project as they are metal.

We are entering an era in which veteran metalheads will have to decide what new stuff out there should be considered metal or not. I see older fans decrying the violated sanctity of such modernistic practices, while greener fans are more primed to embrace it.

The drive behind this hybridization seems to be more than just a starvation for originality. It could also be that metal musicians are realizing that most other musical genres are equal to metal. They are beginning to cast of the mentality that metal is the superior genre. No longer do they assume that metal should be the dominant element in the music they create.

 

[mutantllama]

It's not certain that the cap has been struck. People could of thought than listening to Venom. Later, Darkthrone releases A Blaze in the Northern sky.

 

[HaggardBastard]

Think about this, though: the defining qualities of each subgenre, the respective essence of extremity of each, their very raisons d'etre, have been amplified/exaggerated by successive generations of bands to the point where they can't be anymore. Think of extremity like a volume knob: you can only twist it to the right so far before you twist the knob off completely and the music becomes a putrid, gelatinous mass that doesn't even make sense anymore. This can be applied to death, black, doom, grind, whatever.

Grindcore can only get so fast (Agoraphobic nosebleed, electronically-inclined goregrind like Lymphatic Phlegm) before it's just an unlistenable blur, before it turns into sheer noise.

Black metal can only be so abrasive (Leviathan, early Darkthrone/Mayhem) before it's just a twisted, hissing mass of, yet again, sheer noise.

Death metal can only get so heavy (Mortician, "brutal" death metal like Disgorge) before the strings literally droop off of the guitars, completely unplayable, the music completely indecipherable.

Finally:
Doom metal can only be played so slowly (early Sunn O))), Skepticism) before it, too, becomes pointless and essentially a caricature of itself.

You see where I'm going with this? Subgenres are almost, if they're not already, at that point. The only thing left to do is a sideways crab walk.

Here's to hoping you're right and I'm wrong.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

No, you're right in a sense. But I see metal going in interesting directions in the future. Bands have shown they are capable of creating challenging and interesting things even within the confines of a previously defined and rigid subgenre.

 

[Blind Guardian]

It´s also a question of what you define as extreme. On the pure technical side it can surely not get any more extreme,unless future drummers grow an extra arm etc.I´m sure people thought exactly the same when they first heard bands like Venom,but the difference is that no one then could say "Nothing can go faster/slower than this". Now we can.Well,you could just go fucking nuts on your guitar with a jet propeller or play a single note every tenth minute and call it music, but as HaggardBastard said,you probably cant go anymore technically extreme in any direction to make music you still can call enjoyable.

 

[waif]

I don't think the cap on extremity has been reached, but it is approaching. I think fusion genres will become much more common and popular.
As far as new genres, I don't think that's totally true. There's a lot of experimentation within these genres (death, thrash, black, etc) that although it is extremely different from what the genre is supposed to be, is locked in there for lack of a better description. When thrash metal first came out, people didn't call it thrash right off the bat, they called it heavy metal. Then they realized that it wasn't really heavy metal, so they made a new term for it. I'm making assumptions here, but ditto for death metal and then brutal death metal. Genre names are from hindsight.

Anyhow, I could see folk metal becoming the next major genre. Or melodic death metal. No telling. But heavy metal is still evolving, without doubt. However, there are also revival movements + bands that pay tribute to the old school bands - stuff like Bloodbath and Three Inches Of Blood. This is good - metal keeps expanding and evolving but such bands keep it more or less true to the core of metalness or something.

Good thread, mutantllama. Excellent post, haggardbastard.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

I skimmed through the posts here, eager to say what came to my mind after I read the original post before it slips away. I apologize if it has already been said in some way.

The way I see it, extreme metal has become as extreme as it gets. It has etablished itself as a genre and is no longer something new. But, this doesn't have to mean that it's a dead end.

From being something revolutionary ~50 years ago, rock has etablished itself as a genre and also spawned several subgenres, just like extreme metal has now. And in my opinion, most of it is generic crap. Most rock bands today are making music by a formula that has been unchanged for many years, and mindless drones enjoy this kind of music. However, there are exceptions, that branch into other genres and strive to create something fresh and exciting still.

The same this is gonna happen/has happened to extreme metal, or just metal in general. Maybe there are a few more subgenres to be invented. Most of it is gonna be, or maybe already is, generic crap. Mindless drones are going to enjoy the music made by an age-old formula, while better bands will strive to create something fresh and exciting by branching into other genres and always trying new things.

 

[Matt]

I would kill myself if folk became any more popular than it already is

 

[Blind Guardian]

^ I agree to the extent that i dont care much for what has passed for folk metal so far. But i think that 95% of what passes as folk influenced metal today is anything but that. I havent yet heard a folk band to fully incorporate the folk music with metal,what i´ve yet heard is only some kind of pseudo-"put a flute here and a jews harp there" folk,putting one or two riffs that sound "folky" in the song and call it folk metal. I think that´s a genre which has a great potential if someone truly talented should take it on.

 

[naboo]

Though I do fully realize there's that extremity cap, there will always be creative and innovative minds. Metal appears to be a popular vessel by which their art manifests itself.

I don't think that metal will ever become as stagnant as most rock nowadays, even in decades (though that may be pushing it).

 

[Mort Divine]

I feel that Otyg successfully integrated folk and metal together in a rather seamless manner.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

i haven't seen any great innovations in genre's since the second wave of black metal

 

[Blind Guardian]

Yes Otyg actually did some good folk stuff,same with early Vintersorg. I guess Mr V is the 5% then . But i´m talking folk in general,i reckon there´s tons of stuff you could do with eastern/arabic/asian folk. Even if there´s some bands that fiddle with that stuff,it´s not that widely spread.

 

[waif]

I feel that extreme metal might not be able to get faster or deeper, but I think it could get way more brutal. The raw production and whatnot makes it less brutal, not more, imo...With a clearer, more thumpy drum sound and louder, more slamming riffs, brutal death could definitely get way more brutal.

Anyhow...regardless of one's feelings on folk metal, there's definitely room for growth. For one thing, the metal:folk ratio can be adjusted, the musical arrangements and combinations of instruments can be played with, etc etc etc. Besides which, most folk metal draws from scandinavian and celtic folk. There's some really interesting stuff that can be done with middle eastern stuff that Orphaned land and others have begun to explore.

Also, there's always the use of folk influences in metal that is decidedly not folk metal - for example, Nile and Behemoth have both used middle eastern influences.
There's definitely lots of room for folk metal to grow.

And then bands like In Flames and Soilwork are currently mixing nu-metal and melodic death metal into something that doesn't really fit in either genre. While the music may not necessarily be very good, it's definitely a new branch of metal.

This is just from my limited knowledge of metal. I'm sure V5, Nec, and others who are more in tune with the current state of metal can point to more examples of bands that are pushing the boundaries of their genres.