A lengthy discussion on the state of metal, black metal, retro metal, and hipsters.

Aeosphorus

New Metal Member
Sep 23, 2014
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The history of current metal, and the rise of hipster metal. An attempt to understand some of current metal scenes, see historically how hipsters and doom, stoner, black and extreme metal have crossed over, what is it to make new metal music, how other metal genres and scenes have developed in the last decades, and the downside of living in the retro-centric world of post tumblr metal.

Beware, it is a book. It will take you a long time to read through it.

Any thoughts on this debate?

http://bloodonthesky.blogspot.com.br/2014/09/the-state-of-modern-retro-metal-and.html
 
i might read this eventually. there is something depressing about the way metal has been assimilated into pop culture like everything else, but then again harvey milk did my favourite metal album of the 2010s, and they're 'hipster' inasmuch as they've made more waves among the pitchfork etc crowd than underground metal circles. i find metalheads throwing around the term 'hipster' about as silly as mainstream folks throwing the word 'goth' at metal though tbh.
 
"Heavy metal is about riding the horse of life with your sword, mowing down difficulties with inner strength, and building up your own destiny. Chopping off (metaphorical) heads, conquering problems, beer mugs and women. Heavy metal is about living to the full, and dominating life .

Hipsterism is about being cool, blasé, intellectual and ironic. Entertaining one's peers with comments and references about pop culture. Having a strong sense of fashion style, but not losing the intellectuality. It is also edgy, classy and tattooed."


I'm not sure I really enjoy either of these definitions. That first one might feel true for power metal, but it's not anywhere close to the proper definition for black metal, doom, grindcore, crust (if we call that metal), or stoner. One doesn't chop off heads and chug beer listening to Xasthur. No one's riding the horse of life while Sunn O))) blares over the speakers.

This is a huge article, I skimmed it and honestly... I didn't care. It was just too damn long for me to read what says one of two things: it's cool that metal and "hipster art" aesthetics are combining sometimes (in which case I agree) or it argues for purity (in which case I don't). It's enormous and longwinded and seems full of just baseless assertions ("metal is retro now", what?).

IMO, it's good that hipsters have grabbed metal, and just as good that metalheads have grabbed at hipster music. People forget it's a two way street. It's not all about snotty Starbucks artists co-opting black metal riffs, there are also heavy-ass bands borrowing from post and shoegaze. This isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. It gives us MORE music to love, and more VARIED music. Who wants to hear just a long string of bands who learned how to write riffs from old Morbid Angel albums?
 
Heavy metal is what YOU want it to be and can't be described as

"Heavy metal is about riding the horse of life with your sword, mowing down difficulties with inner strength, and building up your own destiny. Chopping off (metaphorical) heads, conquering problems, beer mugs and women. Heavy metal is about living to the full, and dominating life."

The above description may be valid for those who attend certain very huge
festivals during the summer chasing unicorns.
 
I fucking hate the culture of both. Notably the overwhelming negativity and body defilement. Far, far too many incredibly cute ladies have absolutely ruined themselves with shit like this and the ear-expanders, etc. (Feminists out there I am perfectly fine with you saying the same about cute men defiling themselves with tattoos) Just because one listens to a certain type of music, even fervently, doesn't mean you to have to join some sort of bullshit pop culture cult.

This is partly why I can't stomach aspects of Thrash/Death/Punk and all their social commentary of modern society, or even the religious commentary of orthodox BM. Music for music's sake, people.
 
IMO, it's good that hipsters have grabbed metal, and just as good that metalheads have grabbed at hipster music. People forget it's a two way street. It's not all about snotty Starbucks artists co-opting black metal riffs, there are also heavy-ass bands borrowing from post and shoegaze. This isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. It gives us MORE music to love, and more VARIED music. Who wants to hear just a long string of bands who learned how to write riffs from old Morbid Angel albums?

i agree with the sentiment. as i said a few days ago in another thread, while innovation is always worth pursuing, the problem is that in practice these genre-bending bands' boundary-pushing is usually superficial; you get generic metal clunkily combined with some metalheads' reductive/misguided interpretation of what shoegaze is, or vice versa. in many cases these so-called 'hipster' metal bands aren't people who actually like or understand proper metal, they're just incongruously twisting some of its most obvious trademarks to their own unmetal ends, and result can comse across as insincere (even ironic) pandering. bands should not be praised merely for blending genres, just as they shouldn't be criticised for borrowing from outside sources (let's face it, no seminal metal band existed in a vacuum, many were influenced by non-metal genres).

it also doesn't help that reviews of metal in indie publications are just embarrassing most of the time. ewww.
 
I fucking hate the culture of both. Notably the overwhelming negativity and body defilement. Far, far too many incredibly cute ladies have absolutely ruined themselves with shit like this and the ear-expanders, etc. (Feminists out there I am perfectly fine with you saying the same about cute men defiling themselves with tattoos) Just because one listens to a certain type of music, even fervently, doesn't mean you to have to join some sort of bullshit pop culture cult.

Wow. I'm sure glad I'm not you.
 
This is partly why I can't stomach aspects of Thrash/Death/Punk and all their social commentary of modern society, or even the religious commentary of orthodox BM. Music for music's sake, people.

Absolutely no music in the history of existence has sprung about without some kind of social or political movement behind it. Everything, and I mean everything, was an extension of the culture that originally produced it. To think that anything ever happened just because a bunch of bored people were clanging around on instruments and stumbled upon a sound they liked is ignorance of the highest order.

Punk, black metal? These were cultural movements made manifest IN music, not music that had it foisted upon it later.
 
I fucking hate the culture of both. Notably the overwhelming negativity and body defilement. Far, far too many incredibly cute ladies have absolutely ruined themselves with shit like this and the ear-expanders, etc. (Feminists out there I am perfectly fine with you saying the same about cute men defiling themselves with tattoos) Just because one listens to a certain type of music, even fervently, doesn't mean you to have to join some sort of bullshit pop culture cult.

This is partly why I can't stomach aspects of Thrash/Death/Punk and all their social commentary of modern society, or even the religious commentary of orthodox BM. Music for music's sake, people.

Draele, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
Draele, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Hey Ron Paul, get your own material...
 
Absolutely no music in the history of existence has sprung about without some kind of social or political movement behind it. Everything, and I mean everything, was an extension of the culture that originally produced it. To think that anything ever happened just because a bunch of bored people were clanging around on instruments and stumbled upon a sound they liked is ignorance of the highest order.

Punk, black metal? These were cultural movements made manifest IN music, not music that had it foisted upon it later.

This could probably be challenged, but I'm too busy right now. Maybe someone else will comment.
 
Absolutely no music in the history of existence has sprung about without some kind of social or political movement behind it. Everything, and I mean everything, was an extension of the culture that originally produced it. To think that anything ever happened just because a bunch of bored people were clanging around on instruments and stumbled upon a sound they liked is ignorance of the highest order.

Punk, black metal? These were cultural movements made manifest IN music, not music that had it foisted upon it later.

Obviously music is going to in some manner reflect the culture that it came from. I'm specifically talking about direct, blatant social/political commentary. Hell, even Metallica went through a phase of it in AJFA. At least they did it somewhat tastefully...

Draele, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Butt on butt, butt on.
 
Just because one listens to a certain type of music, even fervently, doesn't mean you to have to join some sort of bullshit pop culture cult.

Exactly. It's just very childish imo.
 
Obviously music is going to in some manner reflect the culture that it came from. I'm specifically talking about direct, blatant social/political commentary. Hell, even Metallica went through a phase of it in AJFA. At least they did it somewhat tastefully...

If your whole point is that you don't like social commentary in music, then cool. That's your personal taste. If, however, you're suggesting that music with an element of social/political commentary is somehow "less pure" than other music, then that's a really stupid opinion. How is it any less "pure" than music that talks about personal relationships, fantasy, philosophy, religion or anything else?

If you want "music for music's sake" I guess you should only listen to instrumental music, though even there you will typically find motivations beyond "pure music."
 
I overall just disagree with the idea of music as an engine for sociopolitical messages. I'm not gonna deny it happens, but the implication that all artists give a shit about humanity and its petty quarrelings is really close minded. Not everyone thinks that shit matters, some... I'd daresay most... would rather create a music that escapes from it than addresses it. I think aesthetics is, and should be, prime above all things in music, and sometimes, bitching about the government just straight up isn't fashionable with the style of that art.

If you follow. Basically, politics isn't a required hobby for artistic greatness, Draele isnt that dumb so chill out, and I'd rather hear about a maiden getting a train of 30 dragons ran on her anyways.
 
I just think that expecting music to not have an underlying social or political message or ideological motivation behind it, is really stupid.

I mean its okay that he prefers "music for music's sake", but expecting all music to be like that is retarded.
 
I just think that expecting music to not have an underlying social or political message or ideological motivation behind it, is really stupid.

I mean its okay that he prefers "music for music's sake", but expecting all music to be like that is retarded.

Yup, that's where the problem is. Like what you like, but it's pretty stupid to act as if music is categorically meant to not touch on certain topics.
 
I can see where Draele is coming from on the "music for music's sake" piece, at least with certain subjects. It can be infuriating to discuss current events, at least ones that concern macroeconomics and politics and such, with someone who derived their opinion from a 2-hour shock doc or an album written by a bitter 30-year-old pub rat.

That being said, there's nothing inherently wrong with social commentary in music, nor with women choosing to express themselves in ways that do not, beyond a shadow of a doubt, affect anyone else. I say bring the 1-inch gauges and sleeves upon sleeves of tattoos, it catches the eye in an extreme way and breaks the mold of sameness that I have to dredge through in daily corporate life.