The Boundary between Rock and Metal

[Zephyrus]

I just thought of this subject and affirm its potential for a good discussion. At what point does hard rock become metal? I've heard various disputes over which bands, particularly of the 70's, should be called hard rock or metal (Rush for example). The Who aren't listed in Metal Archives but I bought a book that profiles them as a heavy metal band.

For two genres that use the same instrumental template there appears to be a blurry boundary between the two and it's been a debate on where to draw a more defined border.

This debate doesn't just involve the 70's but the decades after including the modern day.

The obvious differences such as heaviness and aggresiveness are the true factors but how heavy or aggressive does a band's music have to be to be called metal?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

They're totally different now. One could make the case that early metal was part of the rock movement, but now it is so diverse that it is its own genre of modern music.

The big thing lies in song structures. Rock music relies on hooky structuring centered around a chorus or other part of the song that will "grab" listeners, whereas, for instance, Suffocation do not do this in the traditional way.

 

[Zephyrus]

They're totally different now. One could make the case that early metal was part of the rock movement, but now it is so diverse that it is its own genre of modern music.

i wouldn't say they are completely different in modern day. While pop rock obviously evolved independent of metal, alternative rock and alternative metal/nu-metal seem to blend into each other and therefore no visible boundary between them.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Alternative rock and nu-metal are just different names for the same thing, for the most part.

 

[Kreator/Destroyer]

metal is more blues pentatonic and technicality whereas hard rock has just become dependant on simple power chords and a wah pedal solo

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

speed, aggression, tuning, structures...they all play a role. it's hard to articulate, at least for me, but i can definitely see the difference between rock and metal.

 

[Boru]

One of the biggest differences I see is that is more blues based in my mind. Metal is more based on the Minor scale. A lot of metal bands do play in blues scales though. Like what was said before most rock has a hook.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

speed, aggression, tuning, structures...they all play a role. it's hard to articulate, at least for me, but i can definitely see the difference between rock and metal.

Yea that's pretty much it. If a band uses a double bass that sometimes makes them metal(though I disagree).

Bands on the border-

Rush
Tool
Guns and Roses

and other shit like that.

 

[Valerie]

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=1206
They're definitely right on the line.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=1206
They're definitely right on the line.

I know it's there, but people still argue against. Metal-Archive is NOT all knowing.

 

[CF87]

I see metal as an extention from rock and the 70's, but it could just maybe be the bands i'm into that are metal.

 

[Valerie]

I know it's there, but people still argue against. Metal-Archive is NOT all knowing.

Yes they are
Just kidding. But they are pretty damn close.



I suppose Rush has enough metal-ish material to be considered progressive metal, as well as rock. I don't really listen to them.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

Yes they are
Just kidding. But they are pretty damn close.



I suppose Rush has enough metal-ish material to be considered progressive metal, as well as rock. I don't really listen to them.

I love Rush, they're very talented, but they're singer sounds pretty gay whatever though. I call them metal myself also. As well as Tool.

 

[cookiecutter]

Rock often relies mainly on catchy song structures (as stated earlier), as well as melody. The vocals are also way more the main focus. A lot of times when listening to rock on the radio, I can't really make out any parts, where as in metal the riffs are often clearly defined.

Drums and rythm are also a larger focus in metal than rock.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

there is a very thick line now between hard rock and true metal but there is a very thin line between hard rock and alternative metal

if you know bands like Hurt or 10 Years or Black Stone Cherry, all three of these are considered to be somewhat alternative metal but are they?

Hurt is the closest of the three in the sense that there is a closer resemblance to a metal scream and different instruments such as violin can be heard

10 Years is hard rock...period...the song wasteland may have some traces of metal but doesn't most hard rock?

Black Stone Cherry (a good band i might add) has what the other two bands don't...guitar solos...on top of this they have very heavy riffs but at the same time...the heaviness is not consistent therefore...hard rock

bands such as thrice or staind being deemed metal (though older Staind was close) is conpletely out of place

along with this...ATREYU IS NOT METAL NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE EMO KIDS WHINE...SENSES FAIL IS NOT MOSH PIT HEADBANGER FRIENDLY...YOU CANNOT DO THE METAL HORNS WITH THE THUMB OR YOU ARE A QUEER

but then there are bands such as Hatebreed and Sevenfold...though these bands are hardcore...Hatebreed has been classified (incorrectly) as metal and sevenfold has soloing but hardcore has solos...sometimes

metalcore i don't consider true metal though i do respect As I Lay Dying, Trivium, Unearth, and Lamb of God (LoG i consider true metal)

also rock and metal...though they sound different are combined through one common band (no not zeppelin) the kinks...they invented distortion and they were earlier than any other metal roots including sabbath

ok i'm done...i'm probably gunna get torn apart for my opinion

Ryan you just blabbered on about nothing. GOOD JOB

 

[Life Sucks]

when the riffs are "chunky" and aggressive and the lyrics aren't about girls.

 

[cookiecutter]

when the riffs are "chunky" and aggressive and the lyrics aren't about girls.

what about killing them?

Seriously though, I've always thought that the lyrical theme of mysoginism was lame and overused in metal.

 

[Life Sucks]

what about killing them?

Seriously though, I've always thought that the lyrical theme of mysoginism was lame and overused in metal.

I got a new metal project called Chickicide.

 

[TheVaine]

The boundary is disputable by personal intrest and personal ideals on what someone would classify metal and or rock.

For me, I consider rock to be any band related music that isn't focused on a demonic or darker toned subject... while some Emo music is, I don't consider Emo really music anymore.. but a power hungry mainstream monster.

Rock bands include: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Foo Fighters, anything else lighter then metal but heavier then country.

 

[Zephyrus]

cookiecutter, are you advocating violence against women again?