A theory on the lack of great new bands...

What else did we lose?
You mean aside from MTV, major label support, magazine support, radio support, 90% of the fan base and bands touring the states with consistency? Other than than that? Very little. :loco:

There was still metal magazines on the shelves. Thrash bands were still touring. Pantera, Prong, Sepultura, then later Type O were keeping heavy metal alive. This of course is not mentioning the underground scenes.
Where were all the Metal bands who sprung up during the 90s?

The list of prominent bands from the 80s is endless.

The list of bands who have grown over this last decade, to where they can make a living off Metal is constantly growing... Opeth, Hammerfall, Kamelot, Nightwish, Amon Amarth, In Flames, Symphony X, etc. And that doesn't even include all the bands like Lamb of God, Trivium, Slipknot, Avenged Sevenfold, etc. The list goes on and on.

Where is the list of Metal bands who came to be from 1991 to 2000 and made their living from Metal in the 90s, who were able to tour the states in support of each release? Pantera, Sepultura, Slayer and Prong are immediately disqualified. Type O Negative sustained themselves from their Goth following, as much as anything.

The 90’s grudge/alternative did not hurt metal. It was all the assholes who turned on it that hurt it.
This is like Claus' argument; saying it wasn't Grunge, it was one trend replacing another. Metal was huge. Grunge came into fashion. Metal became yesterday's news. You can blame fair weather fans if you like. But that's ultimately little more than the chicken / egg debate.
 
What killed 'the solo' and 'good guitar playing' was mostly audiences getting tired of long-terrible solos from a majority of 80s rock bands.
Perhaps... although that seems odd. For generations people had just assumed a guitar solo was part of the song. Than Grunge hit, and to a large extent, it disappeared.

I'm sometimes surprised by how talented some guitar players are in the 90s bands, just that the audience didn't want to hear the talent, so it was rarely shown live or, of course, on album.
There were definitely some very good Grunge players. And not to give people the wrong impression, I absolutely love AiC and Soundgarden (as well as Temple of the Dog and Mad Season).
 
Blame the death of metal on the American mentality. The A.D.D. addled minds of people tend to use music as a sort of background noise, a mindless fodder which they can bask in while doing their other chores. The record companies choose what is the next big thing and we as an aimless society just fall in step like sheep.
 
Blame the death of metal on the American mentality. The A.D.D. addled minds of people tend to use music as a sort of background noise, a mindless fodder which they can bask in while doing their other chores. The record companies choose what is the next big thing and we as an aimless society just fall in step like sheep.

Hmm. Do you ever think why something becomes big? Why its chosen to be promoted?

Sure, the music industry loves trends to reinvigorate spending. But I don't think people are as sheepish with their music as you might think. Hell, look at the people who listened to grunge. Most people I knew did not listen to grunge. They listened to pop or other underground forms of music. Grunge was big, sure, but it was big because it drew from the same rebellious crowds that metal did. Just as metal was a rebellion against the softer edges of classic rock, grunge was a rebellion against glam, escapism, and the Motley Crue lifestyle (of course many of the grunge guys ending up living it, but more in a self-hating kind of way). So while grunge was big, I don't think it was just sheep being carried along. Yes, Pearl Jam, STP, Soundgarden, and Nirvana got huge on MTV. But I can list off many of the early-grunge acts that never took off (and some were damn awesome).
 
Um. Your reading comprehension seems to be at the lowest levels. Plenty of good bands that sound similar to great bands.

Umm no, my comprehension is pretty close. I would say that most on this board consider CM great considering the hype they get here. But, apparently you don't. There again, just as in another thread, it's subjective. All in the ear of the beholder with varying definitives of what constitutes greatness.

Hopefully you can grasp that. Or probably not. ;)
 
Still some of you guys are saying metal was popular, what metal? There was only a hand full of bands that were metal not counting the Motley Crues that were somewhat big in the States.
Radio, major label support, etc; where was this? I don't remember Iron Maiden on the radio, Dio, or even Twisted Sister. Certainly Armored Saint weren't being played. Hell one of Maiden's biggest brags is how they did it over here with no radio play. Zod man maybe you could let them know they did in fact get radio support here, apparently like me they didn't hear it.
I will agree with the fact that metal became a dirty word of sorts in the 90s. That could have contributed to how it would become an "ironic" thing to be into further down the road. Hipsters seem to still hold on to this idea.
When I think back to all the guys into metal and even the chicks it is interesting. The chicks certainly did not stick around. All the guys in the Metallica shirts that they seemed to wear for some sort of street credit would fall off too. Those are the guys now that if you make eye contact with them
Sheetz they will notice the metal shirt and start talking to you.
"Man you like metal? I used to be into metal. You like Metallica?" Ok man please do not try to relate with me?
All the replies to my posts talking about fair weathered fans and how fickle Americans are only backs up my statement suggesting that metal fans only have themselves to blame for any decline.
And as for heavy metal bands coming out in America during the 90s, I'll see if I can grab a couple of minutes to compile a list.
 
I think the biggest problem, and I will tie this in with Glenn's post on another thread, is impatience and loyalty. Look at Metal Archives, take a look at your average band and you will see that some of their members are also in 5-6 other bands who are all active. Now, how can you define a band sound when you have split loyalties? When I first found the PP genre and started listening to Stratovarius, St. Enigma advised me to get some of the earlier CDs in order to hear how they developed their sound. I took that advice with Nightwish, Sonata, Suspyre and Kamelot to the point that all four are blind buys for me. The key with those four bands, until recently, is that they had dedicated lineups that was loyal to the band (exception of Nightwish with their side projects). That is key to developing a solid sound, when an entire band is dedicated to that one entity. That is where the impatience kicks in. you have many who act like hired guns instead of members. When that happen, they look for other avenues, which means less dedication to the main body of work. This, in a nutshell, is the problem.
 
Still some of you guys are saying metal was popular, what metal? There was only a hand full of bands that were metal not counting the Motley Crues that were somewhat big in the States.
Radio, major label support, etc; where was this? I don't remember Iron Maiden on the radio, Dio, or even Twisted Sister. Certainly Armored Saint weren't being played. Hell one of Maiden's biggest brags is how they did it over here with no radio play.

I have to ask, where were you in the 80's and 90's? That's not a derogatory question. I mean what city or state did you live in at the time?

Every one of the bands you metioned was getting radio airplay in Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, and Virginia. The Zoo, Another Thing Coming, Never Surrender, Screaming in the Night, Metal Health, Balls to the Wall, Rainbow in the Dark, Eighteen and Life, half a dozen Ozzy songs, and tons of others were all in regular rotation all over the country at one point or another. In addition, Metal Shop was one of the most successful nationally syndicated radio shows of the 80's.

As for Iron maiden, I know for a fact that the Flight of Icarus and the Trooper were both radio hits for them. According to Wikipedia FoI reached #8 on the Billboard Top Album Tracks chart, and Trooper peaked at #28 on the US Mainstream Rock charts. Say what you will about Wiki, but I heard those songs on the radio enough not to doubt those numbers. Strange that the band doesn't remember.

Metal wasn't regulated to Headbanger's Ball on MTV either. It was common to see videos by Queensryche, Skid Row, and Metal Church sandwiched in between Micheal Jackson, Tone Loc, and Hughy Lewis at any time of day.

Cover bands were playing Metal songs in clubs all over the place, and clubs that didn't have live music had Metal played by DJ's and jukeboxes. I have a vivid memory of The Entire crowd at Ft. Lauderdale's Candy Store (a very mainstream night club on the strip) erupting into "We're Not Gonna Take It" when the DJ cued it up.

At Atlanta's Omni (the predecessor to today's Phillips Arena) I saw AC/DC with Malmsteen, Ozzy with Queensryche, Ratt with Bon Jovi, Motley Crue with Guns n' Roses, and Def Leppard with Tesla. I know Dio's "Sacred Heart" tour with Rough Cutt was there also, although I didn't make that show.
At another basketball stadium in NC I saw Keel, Helix, and Accept. I forget the venue as it wasn't close to where I was stationed at the time. I do remember that the venue was big enough for Kiss with Krokus when I saw the "Animalize" tour there. All those shows were packed to the nosebleed sections.

Metal was mainstream and big.
 
I have to ask, where were you in the 80's and 90's? That's not a derogatory question. I mean what city or state did you live in at the time?

Every one of the bands you metioned was getting radio airplay in Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, and Virginia. The Zoo, Another Thing Coming, Never Surrender, Screaming in the Night, Metal Health, Balls to the Wall, Rainbow in the Dark, Eighteen and Life, half a dozen Ozzy songs, and tons of others were all in regular rotation all over the country at one point or another. In addition, Metal Shop was one of the most successful nationally syndicated radio shows of the 80's.

As for Iron maiden, I know for a fact that the Flight of Icarus and the Trooper were both radio hits for them. According to Wikipedia FoI reached #8 on the Billboard Top Album Tracks chart, and Trooper peaked at #28 on the US Mainstream Rock charts. Say what you will about Wiki, but I heard those songs on the radio enough not to doubt those numbers. Strange that the band doesn't remember.

Metal wasn't regulated to Headbanger's Ball on MTV either. It was common to see videos by Queensryche, Skid Row, and Metal Church sandwiched in between Micheal Jackson, Tone Loc, and Hughy Lewis at any time of day.

Cover bands were playing Metal songs in clubs all over the place, and clubs that didn't have live music had Metal played by DJ's and jukeboxes. I have a vivid memory of The Entire crowd at Ft. Lauderdale's Candy Store (a very mainstream night club on the strip) erupting into "We're Not Gonna Take It" when the DJ cued it up.

At Atlanta's Omni (the predecessor to today's Phillips Arena) I saw AC/DC with Malmsteen, Ozzy with Queensryche, Ratt with Bon Jovi, Motley Crue with Guns n' Roses, and Def Leppard with Tesla. I know Dio's "Sacred Heart" tour with Rough Cutt was there also, although I didn't make that show.
At another basketball stadium in NC I saw Keel, Helix, and Accept. I forget the venue as it wasn't close to where I was stationed at the time. I do remember that the venue was big enough for Kiss with Krokus when I saw the "Animalize" tour there. All those shows were packed to the nosebleed sections.

Metal was mainstream and big.

The bands you mentioned are the "hand full" of bands I referred to that did get attention. I still think even with them it is using the term metal loosely, damn the QR was a Slade song for F&%k sake. HAHA
I was in NC, and spent a lot of time traveling to gA. amd FL., by the mid-90s llived a while in Michigan. Never heard Maiden on the radio, well until it became classic rock.
However there was a college station in Raleigh that had a really good metal show in the mid to late 80s, and I was at a college show in the early 90s so I know metal was played there.
 
As for Iron maiden, I know for a fact that the Flight of Icarus and the Trooper were both radio hits for them. According to Wikipedia FoI reached #8 on the Billboard Top Album Tracks chart, and Trooper peaked at #28 on the US Mainstream Rock charts. Say what you will about Wiki, but I heard those songs on the radio enough not to doubt those numbers. Strange that the band doesn't remember.

HAHA you know I'm not disputing the Billboards thing, I don't know haven't checked. But I'm not to sure about getting facts from Wikipedia. You know some college teachers suggest not to use that as reference material because it is often wrong. But hey why not; Columbus still discovered America, the world is flat, and Motley Crue is heavy metal.
 
Nirvana killed metal. Our culture could not grasp the complexities that metal had taken. We went from the 3 chord power pop of Poison in the mid 80's to Dream Theater, Fates Warning and Watchtower and the general public couldn't get their addled brains around it. Nirvana hit and it was like..."BAMMM! This is simple, primal aggro shit that I can understand!" The true fans of music stuck to their guns while poseurs hopped on to another bandwagon. Those same Nirvana douche's later jumped on to gangsta rap, because it was the in thing. Popular music is controlled by the media and the sheep are led to it
 
Nirvana killed metal. Our culture could not grasp the complexities that metal had taken. We went from the 3 chord power pop of Poison in the mid 80's to Dream Theater, Fates Warning and Watchtower and the general public couldn't get their addled brains around it. Nirvana hit and it was like..."BAMMM! This is simple, primal aggro shit that I can understand!" The true fans of music stuck to their guns while poseurs hopped on to another bandwagon. Those same Nirvana douche's later jumped on to gangsta rap, because it was the in thing. Popular music is controlled by the media and the sheep are led to it

LOL
 
Top 100 Metal albums of the 90s voted on by readers of Metal Storm:

1. Megadeth Rust In Peace
2. Death Symbolic
3. Death The Sound Of Perseverance
4. Judas Priest Painkiller
5. Opeth Still Life
6. Dream Theater Images And Words
7. Dream Theater Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes From A Memory
8. Edge Of Sanity Crimson
9. Dissection Storm Of The Light's Bane
10. Sepultura Arise
11. Anathema Judgement
12. Anathema Alternative 4
13. The Gathering Mandylion
14. Opeth My Arms, Your Hearse
15. Ayreon Into The Electric Castle
16. In Flames The Jester Race
17. W.A.S.P. The Crimson Idol
18. Tool Ænima (1996)
19. Slayer Seasons In The Abyss
20. Blind Guardian Imaginations From The Other Side
21. Dark Tranquillity The Gallery
22. Tiamat Wildhoney
23. Opeth Morningrise
24. Death Human
25. Death Individual Thought Patterns
26. Testament The Gathering
27. Blind Guardian Nightfall In Middle-Earth
28. Moonspell Wolfheart
29. Kreator Coma Of Souls
30. Alice In Chains Dirt
31. Immortal At The Heart Of Winter
32. Bathory Hammerheart
33. Control Denied The Fragile Art Of Existence
34. At The Gates Slaughter Of The Soul
35. Lacrimosa Elodia
36. Carcass Heartwork
37. Gamma Ray Land Of The Free
38. Tristania Widow's Weeds
39. Tristania Beyond The Veil
40. Theatre Of Tragedy Velvet Darkness They Fear
41. Theatre Of Tragedy Aégis
42. Emperor In The Nightside Eclipse
43. Katatonia Brave Murder Day
44. Emperor Anthems To The Welkin At Dusk
45. My Dying Bride The Angel And The Dark River
46. Windir Arntor
47. Graveworm As The Angels Reach The Beauty
48. Cynic Focus
49. Amorphis Tales From The Thousand Lakes
50. Stratovarius Visions
51. Summoning Stronghold
52. Satyricon Nemesis Divina
53. The Gathering Nighttime Birds
54. Morbid Angel Blessed Are The Sick
55. Gamma Ray Power Plant
56. Iced Earth Something Wicked This Way Comes
57. Necrophagist Onset Of Putrefaction
58. Moonspell Irreligious
59. Mayhem De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
60. The Sins Of Thy Beloved Lake Of Sorrow
61. Therion Theli
62. Empyrium Songs Of Moors And Misty Fields
63. Cryptopsy None So Vile
64. Savatage Streets
65. Pantera Cowboys From Hell
66. Dissection The Somberlain
67. My Dying Bride Turn Loose The Swans
68. Blind Guardian Somewhere Far Beyond
69. Pantera Vulgar Display Of Power
70. Savatage Edge Of Thorns
71. Symphony X The Divine Wings Of Tragedy
72. Carcass Necroticism: Descanting The Insalubrious
73. Paradise Lost Draconian Times
74. Dream Theater Awake
75. Sonata Arctica Ecliptica
76. Suffocation Pierced From Within
77. Obituary Cause Of Death
78. Agalloch Pale Folklore
79. Morbid Angel Covenant
80. Therion Vovin
81. Faith No More Angel Dust
82. Rhapsody Of Fire Symphony Of Enchanted Lands
83. Dimmu Borgir Enthrone Darkness Triumphant
84. Atheist Unquestionable Presence
85. Overkill Horrorscope
86. Iced Earth Burnt Offerings
87. Pain Of Salvation One Hour By The Concrete Lake
88. Porcupine Tree Stupid Dream
89. Bruce Dickinson The Chemical Wedding
90. Savatage Dead Winter Dead
91. Ulver Bergtatt - Et Eeventyr I 5 Capitler
92. Gamma Ray Somewhere Out In Space
93. Nightwish Oceanborn
94. Motörhead Bastards
95. Arcturus La Masquerade Infernale
96. Suffocation Effigy Of The Forgotten
97. Angra Holy Land
98. Bruce Dickinson Accident Of Birth
99. My Dying Bride The Light At The End Of The World
100. Down Nola
 
i think bands being judged more has something to do with it too. i mean many of the bands we love that came out in the 80's...alot of their work would be dismissed by a large portion of their fans if that same band didnt exist until today.

its just my opinion, but i feel like the simple fact of the time period when they came out changes the acceptance of the band. the saying that "everything has been done before", while not true in my opinion, has some merit behind it in this regard.

i also think the industry, especially after the mid 90's began to work backwards.

what i mean is that, from what i know, it used to be more along the lines of a band making a name for themselves, putting everything on the line, and trying to get out there...and hopefully they do to some level and then gain label support.

from personal experience now, it seems like labels and such select the bands they want to support based on how much $$ they think they can make, and those are the bands that get support which causes many talented projects to never get the financial or promotional support they need.

this is just what ive come across in my short experience with the metal scene and industry.
 
The bands you mentioned are the "hand full" of bands I referred to that did get attention. I still think even with them it is using the term metal loosely, damn the QR was a Slade song for F&%k sake. HAHA

"Loosely" is a relative term, I suppose. Today what is Metal and what is not is much more, and I would argue somewhat overly, defined. I understand the distictions as the genre police ascribe them, but it seems pretty arbitrary as to which bands from the 80's get to be Metal, and which bands don't.

Def Leppard is Metal, but Cinderella isn't. Night Songs kicks the shit out of Pyromania IMO. Manowar's "Battle Hymns" is Metal, but Twisted Sister's "Under the Blade" isn't. Why?

It's even more arbitary compared to the standards of what gets to be Metal these days. The band that released "Shout at the Devil," Motley Crue, isn't Metal, but Within Temptation is. Edenbridge is Metal, but Kick Axe isn't. Helix isn't, but Royal Hunt is.

However, in 1985 that wasn't the way it was. Basically you had Heavy Metal, then Thrash and later it's Death and Black offsprings. That was pretty much it.

Today a lot of people get wrapped up in defining Metal versus Hard Rock. But back then the music and the bands were pretty much inseparable. They were featured in the same magazines, on radio shows, and on MTV. Any given tour could feature artists from either "genre," but I don't remember anyone making any distinctions. I mentioned some before, but other examples include:
Ozzy / Motley Crue (if Crue isn't Metal)- Bark at the Moon tour.
Judas Priest / Dokken- Turbo Tour
Iron Maiden / Ratt, Warrant, Twisted Sister, and Quiet Riot- at various points of the World Slavery Tour.

Quiet Riot covered a Slade song. True. Raintime covered Michael Jackson's "Beat It." Vision Divine covered Aha's "Take On Me." At Vance has covered several Abba songs. Their Metal cred seems to be intact.

It's also true that there were a few Super bands, that got much of the spotlight, and then there were a lot of second tier and one hit wonders below them. However, that was also true for other mainstream music. Rock had Journey, Springsteen, and U2. Country had Alabama, Kenny Rogers, and the Oakridge Boys. Pop had Michael Jackson, Madonna, and Gloria Estefan. Rap had MC Hammer, Run-D.M.C., and Ice-T. Yet, all those styles had their second tier and one hit wonder artists.
I'm not suggesting that Metal was bigger than Pop, Rock or Country, but for the only time in history Metal/Hard Rock was almost on par with the staples of mainstream. It was the only time that you could name a Metal band to a stranger in the street, and it was likely they'd know who you were talking about.

I was in NC, and spent a lot of time traveling to gA. amd FL., by the mid-90s llived a while in Michigan. Never heard Maiden on the radio, well until it became classic rock.
However there was a college station in Raleigh that had a really good metal show in the mid to late 80s, and I was at a college show in the early 90s so I know metal was played there.

HAHA you know I'm not disputing the Billboards thing, I don't know haven't checked. But I'm not to sure about getting facts from Wikipedia. You know some college teachers suggest not to use that as reference material because it is often wrong. But hey why not; Columbus still discovered America, the world is flat, and Motley Crue is heavy metal.

Wikipedia is subject to scrutiny, and used with trepidation. Unfortunately, without access to Billboard's files it's what I have. Regardless, the first time I ever heard "The Flight of Icarus" it was on the radio, and I couldn't wait to get to the Record Bar. I was stationed at Camp Lejeune, and the local Jacksonville, NC station played it and The Trooper on a regular basis. Savannah's I-95 played them too, as did Miami's K-102.