An anti-pirate curious about the warez enemy!
- Thread starter REDBOX04
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Alright, you got me - though I'm actually the kid in the middle hungrily eyeing the ginger's crotch (it was a...confusing point in my life that ended in my plastic surgery to make me look like the Germanic whitey I am today 
)
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AeternusEternus
Member
- Oct 8, 2008
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Stillborn
Scaly Manfish
Well, we grade murders (there's 1, 2 and even 3 sometimes I believe)... And things like "with intent to sell/distribute" make some crimes worse... So, surely, profiting from pirated software IS ACTUALLY worse than just owning pirated software just to fuck around....
You have to realize that I'm not defending users of pirated softwares... I'm saying it's not all black and white... Some answers really sound like "fuck'em all !!! whatever they're doing with pirated software !! throw'em in jail !!"
Let's just chill out and go back to blaming the christians ?
I'm pretty chilled (the end of the semester and several gimlets will do that), and I blame that religion for quite a few things... but I'm not talking as much about legal problems with piracy. Intent to sell is also a common thing in the States (mainly with trafficking controlled substances and firearms) but that's entirely separate from the moral question of property rights. Yeah, it's a bit of a dickish move to make money off of theft, but as far as the violation of property rights goes (and my main concern is the concept of property rights) there's not much difference between taking software to fuck around and taking software to use for profit.
So anyway... yeah, Christianity sucks. My first religious experience was having a knife taken to my genitals because some bonkers cavemen decided that their god loved foreskins. Bastards.
Jeff
So anyway... yeah, Christianity sucks. My first religious experience was having a knife taken to my genitals because some bonkers cavemen decided that their god loved foreskins. Bastards.
Jeff
Stillborn
Scaly Manfish
My first experience with religion was to be taken (as a baby) and dipped in holy water... I honestly don't remember it, but I do remember seeing the movie, and I didn't seem to like it one bit...
Then, I went to an all boy private catholic school (even though I was never catholic to begin with)... I started wanting to become a priest, so I studied religions... Realized that it was all a big bag of conkers, and now I'm dating someone whose parents are young earth creationists... FUUUUUUUUUCK !!!!!
Now circumcision in the US has little to do with religion... I mean, it's not a tradition in any religion except judaism and islam... It was re-introduced in the general public cause some people thought it might discourage masturbation (which is religiously based I'd imagine)... And it seriously enrages me that people do that to kids (way more than knowing people download and use softwares without authorization)
Then, I went to an all boy private catholic school (even though I was never catholic to begin with)... I started wanting to become a priest, so I studied religions... Realized that it was all a big bag of conkers, and now I'm dating someone whose parents are young earth creationists... FUUUUUUUUUCK !!!!!
Now circumcision in the US has little to do with religion... I mean, it's not a tradition in any religion except judaism and islam... It was re-introduced in the general public cause some people thought it might discourage masturbation (which is religiously based I'd imagine)... And it seriously enrages me that people do that to kids (way more than knowing people download and use softwares without authorization)
slayercannibalsuffohead
Get a dog up ya!
"You'd be surprised how many pirates there are on this forum"
Yes I am, seeing that you have 750 odd posts and you say that the number is "fuck loads" and "and I mean a lot of us" says to me that if say we have 1000 members, then at least 500 are pirates, and I have to take that as gospel because you have 710 odd more posts than I do. Now for you to say that with such vigour suggests that 1, you know 500 odd members here personally,2,the so called pirates have pm'd you to let you know of their pirating, or 3, you have read 90% of the posts here and have come across people spilling their guts everywhere on the issue. ( I refuse to believe no3, because you state that you are one of few who have the balls to admit it! )
Although I only have 40 odd posts, I have been a member for 18 months ( which is 10 months longer than yourself ) and have read just about every post available that there is to read ( minus the sabbat stuff and the off topic stuff as well ). I can see your point when you say that I proclaim to know how this forum works, and I should have used a generalization instead of the 99% figure, but overall in the last 18 months of reading (which is a lot ) my general feeling is that this forum is clean as a whole, I do not see "fuckloads" or "a lot of us" posting or boasting that we got this for free or I have this and I did not pay for it! Then again I dont know half of this forum personally or seen any of their set ups.
For you to say you know the flow of this place and use words like "fuckload" etc to me is just astounding! I post little, I read a FUCKLOAD, and what I have read does not even come close to what you are saying!
As for shooing of people, whether you have 40 posts ( newbie ) or 10,000 posts ( regs ) to me does not matter! My eyes are open, and as you know, the 2 things that get my back up are piracy and those who cry poor! If I wanted to use the "get a fucking job then" card, I would have in my previous post. And yes, put that 2-3 pounds away a week, it is worth it, not only will you be getting what you wanted, you would help the developers, and if most could do the same, then perhaps plug ins would not be so expensive either, its a win win for everyone!
And as for a FACEPALM, yeah, I may FEEL IT, JUST, but WRONG MOVE PAL!
everybody's x
My name is Damage
"Should people who REALLY can't become an astronaut not be allowed to hijack space shuttles? "
l0lz....
Here's my question, moral compasses.
There was an outstanding bit of software that came out several years ago. A real time vst loader that you use for live sound. Totally unique and as far as I know the only program of it's type. The product did not sell, or was pirated to death, or I don't know what, something killed the company and the product is no longer available and the company no longer exists. As I was not in S.R. when this product was alive I never had the need or desire to buy it. I did , however, find a copy of it on the net somewhere. Years after it's demise.
Can I use it? Should I use it?
What if you CAN'T buy it? Not because you are poor, but because they don't make it anymore?
l0lz....
Here's my question, moral compasses.
There was an outstanding bit of software that came out several years ago. A real time vst loader that you use for live sound. Totally unique and as far as I know the only program of it's type. The product did not sell, or was pirated to death, or I don't know what, something killed the company and the product is no longer available and the company no longer exists. As I was not in S.R. when this product was alive I never had the need or desire to buy it. I did , however, find a copy of it on the net somewhere. Years after it's demise.
Can I use it? Should I use it?
What if you CAN'T buy it? Not because you are poor, but because they don't make it anymore?
Stillborn
Scaly Manfish
I personally think it's "fine" to use the software in the situation you're describing... But just because I think it's fine, doesn't make it moral... In some countries, morals dictate you to kill your daughter if she brings shame to the family by, I don't know... Talking to someone on facebook ? (yes, that really happened...)
From what I understand of the law, which is fuck all... The copyright holder would have to "release" the copyrights of the software in order for its use to be completely legal... But even if it's legal, does that mean it's moral ? (oh my god, my head...) We had a law in France, not long ago, that said that women were not allowed to wear pants... Granted, no one was enforcing that law, but every country has silly laws like this... I'm lost I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, can we go back to religion now ? I'm ol' greeeegg...
From what I understand of the law, which is fuck all... The copyright holder would have to "release" the copyrights of the software in order for its use to be completely legal... But even if it's legal, does that mean it's moral ? (oh my god, my head...) We had a law in France, not long ago, that said that women were not allowed to wear pants... Granted, no one was enforcing that law, but every country has silly laws like this... I'm lost I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, can we go back to religion now ? I'm ol' greeeegg...
everybody's x
My name is Damage
personally I'm down with a woman being legally required to be naked from the waist down. Note to self: GO TO FRANCE
I don't understand where this general impression that developers make loads of money comes from? As far as i know, one of the only companies that does well is Waves as far as profit goes. The other thousand companies work their asses off for an acceptable run of the mill wage, if their lucky enough not to go down. I'm guessing people assume that because companies charge so much for plugins that they must be rich, it has nothing to do with the fact that they have a tiny market and have to jack up the price because of the small amount of units sold?
Anyway,
nobody has raised the point that piracy is actually somewhat beneficial. Not only is it free marketing, it also land sales that developers would have never previously had before. All because jimmy in his bedroom studio who had never heard of vst'r'us or considered buying their software pirated their plugins for a year and eventually bought them all when he had the money. Piracy introduces new potential clients into the market.
But all in all, there is nothing to be learned from piracy. So therefore it sucks.
Anyway,
nobody has raised the point that piracy is actually somewhat beneficial. Not only is it free marketing, it also land sales that developers would have never previously had before. All because jimmy in his bedroom studio who had never heard of vst'r'us or considered buying their software pirated their plugins for a year and eventually bought them all when he had the money. Piracy introduces new potential clients into the market.
But all in all, there is nothing to be learned from piracy. So therefore it sucks.
James-Doolan
Member
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
I didn't bother to quote your whole post Jeff, but don't get me wrong, I agree on a lot of what you're saying.
When it comes to software and plugins, we really are lucky today with the open-source community becoming larger and larger, and even if not open-source, there still are lots of freeware developers. This wasn't so common back in the early days of computer recordings, so yea, there certainly are a lot of options for someone poor but eager to learn.
And I think you've made your point come across now, that you think it's wrong to simply "take" stuff, regardless if you're making money from it or not. I agree, but I also would like to say that you are splitting it up in black and white, while I see it in several zones. I do believe it's better to not make money from shit you didn't buy, and I know it's still wrong, but it's still better than making money. Killing one person is better than killing two... even if it's a grim analogy but, still. Pure black and white doesn't work, unless you're in a digital world or something.
A friend's grandfather who is now like 80 or something, started his whole violinist career by stealing a violin when he was like 9. He didn't know how to play it before he stole it and he didn't even know it was going to become his life, but it did. Since then, he has done everything every musician dreams of ever doing... touring, playing, recording, etc. I just find stories like these really awesome, even if it's totally wrong. It's so wrong but in the end, I don't know.
Last time I stole something was probably when I was 13-14... it was a little candybar type of thing. And last time I illegally downloaded a software was... not sure, can't really remember, it's been a few months. These days, I have no interest in "expensive illegal" software, because they are worth nothing once you try them and get to know how they work. I don't know about the rest of you here, but I do feel a little bit of guilt if I use a cracked software for a production, even if it's for something that nobody will ever hear.
I have however tried most of the expensive stuff in audio plugins and I don't regret I ever did. It just made me realize I don't need them, I still have a long way to go by just using basic stock or freeware plugins.
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Nice
Nice picture
And the note on the wall is pretty interesting:
"Please try to keep the noise level down in back half of the apartment. It's haunted."
GarethSE
New Metal Member
- Jul 5, 2008
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Well worded
I concede.
All I was waiting for was someone to back up their argument with more than the words "it's wrong"
I needed a "because" I suppose, and fair play to you for it.
Fun question - it would be necessary to see if their products were just released or the rights were transferred somehow. If those rightsholders can be contacted, there's your shot - if no such contacts can be made after a good search, you're in easily defended territory if you choose to download it.
You're only seeing things in shades of grey because you're not looking closely enough. If you don't jump in and attack details, then of course everything will seem like a murky grey stew - if, however, you look closely enough it's no trouble at all. (And as for murders... the victims suffer the same when part of a killing spree as they would if they were the sole target. Two murders are worse than one, but each of those murders is a separate infraction - the problem is with others' rights, and you've infringed on two people's rights.)
I still don't see how so many people can jerk off to how morally superior they think they are for not making money off pirated software. Again, the violation was in using others' property without authorization - these people don't sell their plugins for a percentage of your profit, and even if you become the greatest AE the world will ever see they still won't have a claim to another dime of your money. Okay, great... some textfile with your copy of Tides Super-Wanker Limiter OF DOOM said that it was better to not make money off of pirated software... congratulations, you've made an arbitrary distinction unrelated to the actual infringement!
Pure black and white *does* work - you just have to pay more attention, clear all of the details, and look really fucking closely. I know it's hip and trendy to be too cool to pass judgment, but if you can't turn a good question into a series of yes-or-no questions then you have bigger problems than software.
Jeff
But potential clients haven't spent any money. And there's no indication that the wider pool of potential clients are producing more paying customers than are lost through piracy. Since sales of pretty much everything copyable are dropping (cds and computer games especially) you'd have to find a pretty big extra factor to account for the decline if you want to claim that the piracy has a net positive effect.
SpewChunks, I can have a couple of friends give you a free 'housecleaning'... fortunately, though, I didn't have to ask your permission since it's free *and* a good thing.
Jeff
Jeff
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