another question about screaming/growling

[Hexer]

sorry for posting another one, but I dont want to ask the typical questions

I recently started to practice on my vocals again (I do pretty much everything from low growls to high screams (and everything thats in between)) by learning Grimfist-songs (Ghouls of Grandeur-album). BTW: if you dont know that band, but like death/thrash/black-metal: www.grimfist.com !!!
their Frediablo (Grimfist-vocalist) is a fucking beast (IMO). now there are some pretty damn LOOOOOOOOOOONG screams (or growls) in some of those songs. I even can do them pretty ok, but there are some that are just too extremely long (ever tried to immitate that scream that connects verses 1 and 2 of "Moshpit Underground"????).

that lead me to a question: does this guy use inhaled screams? (if i got it right, you can do more or less endless screams with this technic, right?) can anyone tell me how this would work? I tried to do it, but it just doesnt seem to work.... (no power, can only do very short screams, ...) problem seems to be, that I inhale far to fast, but I dont really know how to fix that......

I don't think I really NEED that technic, but I'm always interrested in stuff like that, and it would ad another bit of versatility to my vocals, wont it?

can anyone help with that?

 

[Enmity]

I don't know about what techniques the grimfist vocalist uses but I'll share my limited experience.

The vocalist for a band I used to be in used the inhaling technique to do his really low, low vocals and to do his 'toilet' or gurgling vocals. But other than that to do all other vocals he used the standard technique. After picking his brain for about an hour or two I figured out that basically it all boils down to practice. He gave me the crash course in doing growls and screams and basically to gain the ability to do those long screams or growls you just have to practice it a lot. He told me that he has an hour commute to work and back and every day he went to work he'd practice his vocals in the car to his favorite songs and gradually his vocals got better and better and he could hold his screams / growls out longer and get them higher or lower. Its all about training and getting your body used to doing the vocals and then you can really start manipulating your voice a lot better.

 

[Hexer]

thats right, I do the "car-practising" too, but I've been doing that kind of vocals (more or less seriously) for about 4 years now, so I think I do already have a bit of experience.

about the long screams/growls: I can do them, mybe not as long as Frediablo & co. but still pretty good I think.
I just want to learn something new, thats all and as I don't know anyone who could show me how that stuff works in person, I just posted here

 

[Nefarious_]

you can sustain an infinite scream or any vocal sound if you learn circular breathing. Basically, this is when you breathe in through your nose while your mouth is screaming. I can't do it myself, but I've heard it is possible.

I was recording some vocals the other day and it came to the end of the song where there's basicaly a scream for as long as I can physically hold it. I took a really dee breath and screamed as long as I could. I started getting light headed after about 16 bars but I decided to carry on even if I passed out, I wanted as long a scream as possible. What happened next was weird, instead of passing out I started feeling better again I kept going for ages like it was effortless, it was really strange. You can hear on the recording where I nearly passed out becuase the scream gets quieter in the middle, but all in all it's about 30 seconds long, which I think is pretty impressive seeing as I cant hold my breath for more than about 20.

 

[Hexer]

yeah I think long screaming is more or less a matter of practice, though I've never heard about that circular breathing before

hey, 30 seconds is really impressing, I think I may be able to do it half as long (in any voice from low growl to high scream) wich is more than everyone else that I know in person can do (well, I don't really know many extreme-vocalists)

now does anyone know anything about inhaled screaming except just practising?

 

[Nefarious_]

I know I can't really use it that much, it makes my throat all dry. I think someone said that Dani Filth uses inhaled screaming, but i'm not sure on that, i'm not a CoF fan. I don't think inhaled screaming is actually that loud either, in my experience it's quite hard to get a mic to pick it up without cranking the PA and ramming the mic halfway down your throat.

 

[AmirH]

30 seconds is about the longest I can hold it. It's plenty IMO. Anything longer is dull.

 

[Enmity]

30 seconds is about the longest I can hold it. It's plenty IMO. Anything longer is dull.

Minor hijack - A Seattle person. You in any local bands up here?

 

[AmirH]

Nah, I just do my own thing. My "band" if you can call it that is just me and a drummer. We need more people if we want to gig. It's a pain anyway though, since he lives in the olympia area and we only practice a couple times a month. I've got like an hour or so of material for a demo but it's all still beta. Recording drums is a total bitch...

Are you familiar with hellpromise? One of my friends plays bass in that band.

 

[Enmity]

Nah, I just do my own thing. My "band" if you can call it that is just me and a drummer. We need more people if we want to gig. It's a pain anyway though, since he lives in the olympia area and we only practice a couple times a month. I've got like an hour or so of material for a demo but it's all still beta. Recording drums is a total bitch...

Are you familiar with hellpromise? One of my friends plays bass in that band.

That's cool. Finding a good drummer to jam with is hard enough as it is. Hold onto him. Yeah. I've heard of Hell Promise but I've still never seen them. Have you heard of any of these bands: Serpens Aeon, Sin Dios, Vs. The World, Inquinok, Evangelist, Funeral Age, Shaded Enmity?

 

[AmirH]

I've heard of a couple through friends but I haven't seen any of em live. I guess I'm not too deep into the local scene really.

 

[The Grimace]

The circular breathing and reverse-inhaling and all that shit is like when a drummer says 'He's not really that fast, it's just triggered kick-flams'. I just wanna say, 'The reason you can't do that is because these people are the best in the world, and you just can't do it.'

 

[bogii]

i´d say that it´s impossible to breath in through your nose while you breathing out through you mouth. You can blow air from you mouth while you breath in through you nose but you can´t use you lungs.

 

[bogii]

on the subjects of growling. I can do the cradle of filth squeel grol thingie, but i suck at the low, opeth thing. Is it a total different technique or should i just practice?

 

[Enmity]

I will talk to my vocalist friend again to see if he can write something up for me and I will post it here. Specifically stuff about being able to growl / scream longer, louder, and breathing techniques. He can do everything from the 3 different Nile vocalists, to the Cradle of Filth annoying high pitched thing, to Hetfield, to Mustaine, to Chuck Billy, to Morbid Angel (all their vocalists).. Its pretty damn scary.

I've heard of a couple through friends but I haven't seen any of em live. I guess I'm not too deep into the local scene really.

You should give 'em a chance.. There are some pretty damn good local metal bands (in my opinion) around here. If you're 21 there are some pretty good shows coming up within the next few weeks, as well as one all ages show at the Graceland.

 

[Hexer]

the idea was just that I wanted to learn something new or at least have some new things to experiment with
I also think, that long screaming/growling is more or less a matter of practice. I already can do pretty long screams/growls (no 30secs but its ok ).
I also can do pretty much any style from freaking high-pitched screaming over the midranged stuff to low growls (well, not as low as some of those deathmetal guys, but still pretty low). I'm no newby to extreme-vocals (been doing that kind of stuff for some 4 years already), but I'm not a pro either so I'm always after new ideas to check out.

Enmity: would be cool if your friend could write something!

 

[The Grimace]

I also think, that long screaming/growling is more or less a matter of practice. I already can do pretty long screams/growls (no 30secs but its ok

30 secs of high-scream is about pretty standard for a seasoned growler... you just have to learn to fight through the pain. You should keep holding it until your neck is popping and you feel like your skull is cracking outwards. That's how I've learned to do the long-long-ass Peter Tagtgren screams. You just keep going higher and louder until you physically can't take the pain anymore, or you start to go blurry and pass out. It's just like any other kind of excercise. You don't get buff from stopping when it hurts.

 

[Nefarious_]

I've never had it hurt at all, i've blacked out momentarily during band rehearsals before, but if it's causing you actual pain, then I suggest you develop your technique a bit. I think the passing out thing is just caused by not having enough oxygen to the brain, screaming takes up a lot of oxygen.

 

[The Grimace]

if it's causing you actual pain, then I suggest you develop your technique a bit. I think the passing out thing is just caused by not having enough oxygen to the brain, screaming takes up a lot of oxygen.

That is the technique, skeeter. The more you push your limits, the more control you have over your voice. It's called being a fucking punk rocker, and not limiting yourself to 'comfort'. I guess I've scarred my throat so much over the last 5 or 6 years that I don't have too much pain anymore, but for someone looking to expand, that's my advice.

'Pain=Progress'

 

[Hexer]

Grimace: about the 30sec-thing again: could you name any examples please? I dont remember hearing a song with such long a scream