Any good totally ITB productions?

[UncleBob]

So much of what I read in this thread are guys who are more guitarists ect than they are engineers/producers and people who talk about big studios but have never stepped foot in one. Sigh. It's frustrating to see so many home studio guys calling their crap shoot place a "studio" while I work in Blackbird Studios and other great places. Ok, I still work on edits/mixing at home for cost but I still have a large format console rolling. Do I have a Bachelors in this stuff? Yes. Is it useless? Yes. I digress....I still say using amp sims and Superior drummer isn't engineering. Someone else already recorded that for you. Meanwhile, I'm going through a locker of a million mics spanning nearly a century of time using many large beautifully tuned rooms which I have to walk around to find tone spots. While I am still learning and always will, THAT is engineering to me. That said, there's no shame in starting from the bottom ect. We ALL started there.

I totally agree with you on this, however just to throw some bullshit "semantics" in there, you (I don't mean you personally I mean the royal "you" as in them) didn't really build that room or those mics, a guy who slaps up a mic in front of a cabinet built neither the mic nor cabinet nor guitar or amp, from a certain point of view you're basically trying to get a good sound out of stuff that other people made, kind of like dicking around with amp sims and impulses likewise trying to get some sort of good sound out of stuff other people made/coded.

But I still agree, I've thought about and discussed this quite a few times, part of the problem with the whole "industry" is people can basically call themselves whatever they want, over here this used to be a massive problem in the investment/financial planning sector and people were being screwed out of money big time because anybody could call themselves a "financial planner", so it's now law that you have to pass a number of qualifications with a number of "point"s before you can start in that business/field, there's a general qualification which all financial workers and real estate agent types have to pass, and then more specific ones, not only that but every couple of years you have to redo the exams to make sure you're up to date with current laws and practices and on top of that you get audited every year or so to make sure your not being a prick.

It's a bit much but at the same time I half wish such a thing existed for audio workers or working musicians (musicians actually making money and not just "artistes"). It would make things a lot more professional and generally just separate the wheat from the chaff and only the people who are really serious about it would be able to have "studio's" or whatnot actually taking peoples money for a certain minimum level of quality.

Otherwise it's like any "dude" with a scalpel can call himself a doctor and do heart transplants in his converted backyard tool shed on weekends type of thing.

 

[JasinElric]

Look at Allen West from Obituary. He made Meth in his bedroom. Sure, it probably wasn't as high quality as Meth made by professionals in bigger, dedicated facilities, but what he had is still called a Meth lab, and he was still labeled a drugmaker.





(totally joking, by the way)

 

[blue_fAng]

I think it's the work you've done what counts really, not how people call you or if you used amp sims or not.
Am I wrong guys?

 

[JeffTD]

Yes. What you're saying is doing the work of an audio engineer doesn't mean I'm an audio engineer?

I've built the majority of my outboard gear and my main vocal mic - does that make me an EE?

What scares you so much about just admitting that you are a hobbyist and not an audio engineer?


Think about it - you're meeting someone at a bar or house party or whatever.

"What do you do?"

"I'm an audio engineer."

"Oh that's so cool! So you record with a bunch of bands and make records and have a studio and stuff?"

"No, I work on my own projects and practice with free tracks online."

"So then... it's a hobby, not a job?"

"Right."

"Cool! What do you do for a job?"

 

[UncleBob]

I think it's safe to say you can label yourself based on what you pay your taxes with.

 

[Line666]

I always just refer to myself as a producer when I'm around anyone who isn't an AE. All the terminology is mired in bullshit anyway so I figure I might as well just shoot for the term where every musician out there doesn't think I'm just a glorified button pusher.

 

[smy1]

Why do you guys actually care what anyone calls themselves? If your work slays, you can call yourself "sound plumber" and still be booked 12 months a year. If you suck, you'll never work. If you are at the level where you have to work with $10/h bands in their rehearsal room, then that's where you are at, regardless of your skillset. If inferior people steal your market share it just means you are not good enough at what you do (yet).

Regarding the "when is a studio a studio?" question: in the past 6 years I've released 1 EP and 6 full length albums including 4 worldwide club hits. All were recorded and produced in my home studio which is only one room in my house. How on earth can anyone in their clear mind say that my modest room is not a studio if I produced 80+ tracks there - all of which garnered a worldwide audience?

None of this has anything to do with gear either. Engineering in awesome studios with great mic selection is much easier than engineering a record on ADAT with Behringer stuff in your basement, don't you think? I've heard so many shitty tones come out of big studios that I'm kinda glad that hobbyists have Toontrack drums and ampsims, so the baseline level isn't as low as it used to be.

Reverse question: I've fucked at least 8 girls (that I can remember) in my current studio. Does that make it a less or more legitimate production facility?

In the end what defines a "studio" and an "engineer" really is:

a) studio: a place with any kind of recording equipment where people make music and record/mix it

b) engineer: a person who records/mixes music with whatever equipment is available

It doesn't matter if you are good at it or if it is your primary type of income: during the time someone records something he's an engineer, even though he might suck at engineering and usually is an accountant from Monday to Friday. If that definition devalues or invalidates anyone who thinks he actually is a great professional audio engineer then a thicker skin is in order.

 

[JasinElric]

@smy1,
I totally agree, though that doesn't appear to be a very popular opinion

What scares you so much about just admitting that you are a hobbyist and not an audio engineer?


Think about it - you're meeting someone at a bar or house party or whatever.

"What do you do?"

"I'm an audio engineer."

Audio Engineering is a hobby of mine, I can admit that. I'm just having trouble understanding why it's so touchy a phrase. Is AE so sacred a title that a lowly home studio guy isn't worthy of baring it?

I'd never answer AE when asked what I do. I do too many damn things to put that at the center. If were at a party, it also depends how drunk I am. 4 shots and I'm the inventory manager for lvmh. 10 shots+, I'm an astronaut.

 

[slo77y]

smy1 is absolutely right. its the outcome that matters. if u can deliever a slammin mix with your 10€ earbuds then thats what you should do. i mix everything at home, in a place lookin nothing like a studio. do i have access to a facility which can be considered "professional studio with treated acoustics and 60+he analog outboard gear yada yada" yes. but at home is the place where i feel the best, and that seems to result in the best sounding mix.

the real problem i see with this is that musicians/label guys etc. want to be impressed with things that doesn´t matter in the end product, like how profesisonal a studio looks, how big it is, how much mics and outboard gear there is of which 80% wont be used in the production etc. psychological factors are everyones enemy when it comes to recording...


workin in shitty circumstances with shitty gear is the best teacher.


what bothers me is that there are a lot of bands that REQUEST the cookie cutter sound..

 

[drew_drummer]

that doesn't appear to be a very popular opinion

Mainly because it's not a nuanced enough of an opinion to really account for all of the facts.

Look... I'm sorry a lot of you guys are hemorrhaging money left-right-and-centre, and I'm sorry if you're only recording utter horseshit music that has no artistic value whatsoever, but that doesn't really give you the right to dictate to someone else what they should call themselves.

I don't call myself an audio engineer. Not because I didn't study it, and not because I don't have a few rooms in a building that I decided to rent out. I don't call myself an audio engineer because I refuse to branch out and work with other bands.

But do I know what it takes to *BE* an audio engineer? You're damn right I do. I've done it time and time again. Just because I didn't get paid for it and just because it was my own band doesn't make that experience any less relevant to audio engineering.

This whole "it's based on how you pay your taxes" thing is bullshit. People can be many things, and at the end of the day your job is only a small part of what you are as a person. I don't define myself as what I do as a job - when I meet people and they ask me what I do, I tell them I'm a musician.

 

[Ryuno]

Oh boy, it's the whole "they're not as cool as I am" kind of mentality again.

Otherwise it's like any "dude" with a scalpel can call himself a doctor and do heart transplants in his converted backyard tool shed on weekends type of thing.

Are the transplants successful? Is he saving lives, though? Because that's Medicine, right there. A friend of mine never cooked in his life before, but he somehow landed a gig at a fast food restaurant where he was taught the job on his first week while working. Now, I'd correct him if if he said he was the world's finest chef and the variety of the dishes he can make might be up to debate, but he is a cook of sorts now and none of you can tell me otherwise without being objectively wrong. Yes, even if all he can do is flip burgers, he's still cooking for money. That's a cook for you.

Guys, Audio Engineering isn't your secret club anymore. I'm sorry you have to deal with the fact there are 18 year old guys telling you "hey man, my guitarist is one too... his POD makes the sickest tones!", and that they want to give you tips when you're trying to set up equipment they've never seen or touched before. It's still uneducated, if not stupid, to think that the gear or lack thereof defines one's career

A metal fan (non-object variety) is someone who enjoys metal even if they don't go to concerts or buy merch; it's a fan of metal, and there's all it means. If Jeff Loomis lost all his guitars, he'd still be a guitarist, and pretty damn good while at that. Someone being a bad lawyer doesn't negate the fact he's a lawyer. A guy on the Internet who never went to college is doing mixes on Audacity and maybe even getting paid for it? Too bad for the purists, he can and most likely will advertise his services as an Audio Engineer. If he chooses to think of it as more of a hobby, it's his business and not yours.

Your profession is more popular now, boohoo. Being an audio engineer shouldn't be seen as an accomplishment on its own, it's a profession same as a teacher, a guy who picks up garbage to sell it, mall cops, the president. It's your job no matter how passionate you are about it and if you get any praise, it will be because you're doing it good. However, regardless of how much effort you put in it, it's still pure entitlement to think that doing x or having y means you're "a true professional". This is blatant hipster talk, and it's in everyone's best interest to leave it out of business.

 

[SoundsLikeFog]

I like this dude. ^

It's a craft. Sure, be proud. But it's still just a craft. Don't get carried away.

Making emotionaly evoking music is magic. Writing a book that touches millions of souls is magic. Making a film that changes the world is magic. Standing in front of a panzer batallion knowing they will pummel you to the ground is magic. Creating a slamming bass drum sound, not so much.

Doctors, AE's, McJobs, White collars, blue collars, black collars.. What's the difference? And who could give less than shit about it? It's a job. Excel at it. Be proud. But remember your place. Our job is to not fuck up the magic that's been delivered to us.