Atmospheric Black Metal!

[Draehl]

Black metal is a good base, but most of the more generic "wear corpsepaint, be grim, worship satan" black metal is incredibly bland. But most of the bands with tags like Atmospheric, Ambient, Viking, Folk, Avante Garde, etc tend to be much better. I think there may be too many just trying to conform to the aesthetic that they lose focus on the music. Black Metal derivatives are superior to most Black Metal because the subgenrage at least denotes some uniqueness and deviation from the norm.

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

Black metal is a good base, but most of the more generic "wear corpsepaint, be grim, worship satan" black metal is incredibly bland. But most of the bands with tags like Atmospheric, Ambient, Viking, Folk, Avante Garde, etc tend to be much better. I think there may be too many just trying to conform to the aesthetic that they lose focus on the music. Black Metal derivatives are better than most Black Metal.

As as general rule I agree, though I can't say if its because I prefer one style more than the other or if its because the acts in each are just better overall at what they do.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Yes, that's true, but I see them as branches that have evolved in a wrong direction, and by "wrong" I mean away from where it started (satanism).

Bottom line: black metal started as satanic, and when it evolves into not being satanic, it's not true anymore.

Concequence of this argument: Dimmu Boiger= true black metal Burzum= untrue black metal. If you say otherwise, you have rejected your own criterion.

 

[PhlegethonVeins]

Same deal with that argument would be nearly every band would have many non black metal songs on their releases, as with other genres as well. Pointless argument for a pointless endeavor.

 

[damnromulans]

Be Persecuted "I.I." (the letter i) is another album I'd recommend. Female fronted (screeching and/or whispering, no clear singing, she sounds like Varg actually), very buzzy and hypnotic with simple instrumentation (no symphonic elements), IMO blurs the line between ambient and atmospheric.

 

[skeptik]

Concequence of this argument: Dimmu Boiger= true black metal Burzum= untrue black metal. If you say otherwise, you have rejected your own criterion.

Not to disagree with your broader argument, but to deny Varg's involvement in Satanism in his early material is not the route to go.

From Charontapos zine, 1993:

"Morbid Angel are fake satanists. Deicide is Black Metal. By being commers (sic?) they twist and pervert most possible most souls Black Metal isn't underground. Black Metal is religion! Satanism!"

"Black Metal is not a style of music, it's a style of existence! "Church of satan" bands play White Metal!"

"As a satanist I prefer to kill C.O.S. followers as they are the good ones. Satanism is the worst way. The path of evil. The path of misery."

"When you mean bands like Immortal, Fester, Perdition Hearse, Emperor or Thyabhorrent, they aren't Black Metal bands. To be a Black Metal band, you have to worship the dark lord, and exist purely for him! Only Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone play Black Metal. Our proud black trio of Norway."

There's also the lyrics to "Key to the Gate":

My eyes are shut I cannot see
though clear is thy despair
I drift away - far away
from places of which you seek
Though I seek thy hell
you close the gate before me
Your life is right, and I'm to
follow to your paradise
I cannot fall in love
love is for them
Lusting for the sky -
Heaven
Why did I come to this world
of sorrow why is this true
Where is my dagger of sacrifice
I will open the gates to Hell one
Day...

And the (translated) lyrics to "Snu Mikrokosmos Tegn":

No stillness out here - a dream
Here where the moon rules - a dream
I hate this wood
Where there is no danger
No wolf
No bear
No troll
Breathes
Nothing
Breathes
Only night and me - only night and me
A night I shall journey
Till Hell

And the (translated) lyrics to "Hvis lyset tar oss":

A glade in the wood
Where the sun shines
Between the trees we are imprisoned
In this God's glade
It burns it scorches
When the light licks our flesh
Goes toward the sky a smoke
A cloud of our form
Prisoners of the burials
Tormented by God's goodness
No flame no hate
They were right we have come to Hell

And of course various other more vague references to "evil" and "darkness" directly correlative to being the antithesis of God, goodness, etc.

 

[TheInsane]

Venom was the first to create black metal, it was satanic (maybe just for the show, but still). Then came Bathory who took it further, it was also satanic. Then came Euronymous, who created the modern black metal, it was satanic, he was even quoted saying "It doesn't matter what it sounds like as long as it's satanic". Black metal is supposed to be satanic, music to praise Satan, just because some people have tried to make it more mainstream and "acceptable" doesn't change what it's truly about.

There is no black metal ideology. There are some shared aesthetics and some more or less common ideas but no such thing as an ideology. We have been through this before but I would say the imagery has more in common band to band than the actual ideology behind it. How can you seriously say that Venom, Emperor, Immortal and say Dissection has the same ideological base? I am guessing you cinsider all those bands as "true".

And even if they claim to be "satanic" that tends to mean whatever the bands want it to mean. And to be sure they themselves didnt define "Satanism". If we go by the first big and legally recognized satanic group in existance most band wouldnt even be all that close to being satanic. If we go by the words initial meaning (Given by the christian church) then every band that were anti-christian or even just atheistic would be satanic.

To claim that there is a black metal ideology behind the music is pretty narrow minded. Shared aesthetics and shared lingo I would say more than anything else. I am actually surprised at how much the ideology differs from band to band - even the early stuff that are called first wave (or highly influential) like Venom, Mercyful Fate and Bathory.

 

[Ryuuzaki]

So then any black metal song by any black metal band that happens to not have a reference to satanism (vague or otherwise) is in fact, not actually a black metal song?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

guys i think this is the quickest i've ever seen a thread become an epic failure.

 

[The Emptier]

Yup

 

[The Butt]

I lol'd at Necroraven using the term "hipster", cause with all his "LOL TRUE BLACK METAL IS ABOUT SATAN" inane blathering, he looks to me like the biggest hipster of all.

Yes, early on black metal may or may not have been based in a "satanic" ideology; but even if that's the case, that time has long passed, and the genre has since evolved to leave that aspect behind. Yes, some modern BM bands sing about Satan, but it is not essential anymore. To say that BM must sing about war, hate, or Satan to be "true", is to use an antiquated and incorrect version of the term "black metal", in a modern context.

Regardless... On-topic, Abyssic Hate is pretty cool; can be Burzum-like at times, really buzzy, wall-of-noise kinda BM.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

Urfaust

This. This. And this.

I don't know if anyone mentioned them or not but Sombres Forêts is a personal favorite and I would rec them to anyone looking for ambient/depressive black metal. I actually have their album Royaume De Glace as my avatar currently.

 

[The Emptier]

I think they, along with Gris and subsequent projects were mentioned, but good recc's indeed

 

[Necroraven]

I see no sense in continuing this debate, especially when most people here who even understand anything about black metal, listen to it merele because it's "cool dark music". I'll quote myself and that's the last thing I'm going to add to this discussion.

Bottom line: black metal started as satanic, and when it evolves into not being satanic, it's not true anymore.

But to continue on topic again, I'm suprised ColdWorld hasn't been mentioned yet. They are great.

 

[damnromulans]

Does anyone listen to black metal for reasons other than it being cool dark music?

 

[TheInsane]

I see no sense in continuing this debate, especially when most people here who even understand anything about black metal, listen to it merele because it's "cool dark music". I'll quote myself and that's the last thing I'm going to add to this discussion.




But to continue on topic again, I'm suprised ColdWorld hasn't been mentioned yet. They are great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9bdbLWZlqg

So Enslaved were never black metal then? What about the other early bands that played black metal music but didnt subscibe to your criteria of Unholy TRVE CVULT, war, hate and Satan ideology?

 

[Necroraven]

Empyrium is/was great. They could maybe fit in this thread:

So Enslaved were never black metal then? What about the other early bands that played black metal music but didnt subscibe to your criteria of Unholy TRVE CVULT, war, hate and Satan ideology?

As I said, I will not continue this discussion here. But if you greatly desire to know which bands I label as true black metal, you can pm me about the subject. It's probably waste of time on my behalf though, considering your childish "vnholy kvlt panda make-up gr1m trve ug"-jokes.

 

[TheInsane]

As I said, I will not continue this discussion here. But if you greatly desire to know which bands I label as true black metal, you can pm me about the subject. It's probably waste of time on my behalf though, considering your childish "vnholy kvlt panda make-up gr1m trve ug"-jokes.

Well, they are indeed jokes. You are the one being serious about the whole "true black metal" thing.

And as I suspected (which is almost always the case) even if you say its gonna be the last post in a discussion you keep posting.

Feel free to tell me which bands you dont consider to be black metal (first and second generation only) but that is generally categorized as such.

How satanic does a band need to be? And which kind of Satanism? Is any branch of Satanism ok or just the most extreme inverted christianity branch?

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

I see no sense in continuing this debate, especially when most people here who even understand anything about black metal, listen to it merele because it's "cool dark music". I'll quote myself and that's the last thing I'm going to add to this discussion.

You're taking a lot of shit in this thread, but I agree with you and your assessment of black metal. You're a purist when it comes to black metal and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a purist when it comes to a lot of things inside and outside of music.

btw that Coldworld song is great. Great band/individual.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Not to disagree with your broader argument, but to deny Varg's involvement in Satanism in his early material is not the route to go.

From Charontapos zine, 1993:

"Morbid Angel are fake satanists. Deicide is Black Metal. By being commers (sic?) they twist and pervert most possible most souls Black Metal isn't underground. Black Metal is religion! Satanism!"

"Black Metal is not a style of music, it's a style of existence! "Church of satan" bands play White Metal!"

"As a satanist I prefer to kill C.O.S. followers as they are the good ones. Satanism is the worst way. The path of evil. The path of misery."

"When you mean bands like Immortal, Fester, Perdition Hearse, Emperor or Thyabhorrent, they aren't Black Metal bands. To be a Black Metal band, you have to worship the dark lord, and exist purely for him! Only Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone play Black Metal. Our proud black trio of Norway."

And of course various other more vague references to "evil" and "darkness" directly correlative to being the antithesis of God, goodness, etc.

Doden, all very good points, and you're right, I had forgotten that Varg referred to himself as a satanist early on. Its been ages since I read old interviews with Varg. I guess I've just come to interpret all his music from his currant pagan ideology, which may be a mistake on my part. However, I think it is worth noting that he now claims that the self-proclamation of Satanism was a misunderstanding on his part.

So what the Judeo-Christians call "Satanism" or "devil worship" is really our own European religion! My attraction to this must be seen in the light of this. Also my teenage will to briefly use the term "Satanist" to describe myself must be seen in this light. Yet, I have never been a "Satanist", just like our forefathers never were "Satanists" either. I am and have always been a Pagan. "Satanism" or "devil worship" as described by the Judeo-Christians has simply never existed. The belief in the existence of "Satanism" or "devil worship" is just ignorance and a result of lie-propaganda.

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/a_burzum_story05.shtml