Attention Nirvana Fans....

[OfSinsAndShred]

Yngwie? Uninnovative?

The dude was the first metal player to HEAVILY emphasize harmonic minor runs, sweep arpeggios, classical music, and virtuosity... sound like any other guitarists? Yeah, because he changed the scene and everyone has followed his lead. Any shred guitarist will call Yngwie an influence, and most melodic/neoclassical metal players will, too. So I don't see how he can't be innovative.

 

[ElPredicador]

Yngwie? Uninnovative?

The dude was the first metal player to HEAVILY emphasize harmonic minor runs, sweep arpeggios, classical music, and virtuosity... sound like any other guitarists? Yeah, because he changed the scene and everyone has followed his lead. Any shred guitarist will call Yngwie an influence, and most melodic/neoclassical metal players will, too. So I don't see how he can't be innovative.

Well, if you call auto plagiarism innovation, then yes, Yngwie is the master.

PS: OfSinsaAndShred, don't take only a part of my phrases. My point in that phrase was not Kurt Cobain innovation, but metal bands innovation.

 

[Hyoukinmono]

Yngwie? Uninnovative?

The dude was the first metal player to HEAVILY emphasize harmonic minor runs, sweep arpeggios, classical music, and virtuosity... sound like any other guitarists? Yeah, because he changed the scene and everyone has followed his lead. Any shred guitarist will call Yngwie an influence, and most melodic/neoclassical metal players will, too. So I don't see how he can't be innovative.

Exactly. From the time I was a kid, I wanted a combination of rock and classical music, so for years I listened to Ritchie Blackmore, Uli Roth, Jethro Tull, a bit of prog rock here and there, classical music, and all that, but I always wanted something a bit different. Something that would have elements of all of those, but would have something more. The first time I heard Yngwie (the first Alcatrazz release), I knew that I had found it. Even with the all my years of searching, I had never heard anything like his style of play. It wasn't just metal and it wasn't just classical. It was like a synergy created by the two that ended up being more than their sum. And it was his melodies that made me a permanent fan.

 

[Zax666]

I didn't say he ripped off other GUITARISTS, I mestioned some COMPOSERS and the guitarist which he 'borrowed' the big idea from. What you guys said was, as long as he wasn't ripping off guitarists, it was OK and he was being innovative.

Wrong. A musician's composition doesn't depend that much on their instrument of choice. Does it make two warriors incomparable if one was using a sabre and the other's weapon of choice is a sword? On the battle field?

Dude, if I decided to play Creeping Death on bagpipe, that isn't an innovation, even if it sounds good. Not in the long run.

As for metal innovation, I can assure it's inconsistent - I mean, people saw his approach, got the best out of it and went on. Yngwie decided to stay in his initial phase and hasn't brought up anything new, composition-wise to metal, let alone music as general, ever since the late 80s. Yngwie is a one trick pony, played card, get over it!

What I meant with my post is that if you don't like someone, you can say he wasn't being innovative at all. You can easily discredit him - and in fact, you'd be right.

As far as music is concerned, not much innovation has ever been done, let alone by one person. You guys are overhyping it.

Really.

 

[Hyoukinmono]

Yngwie is a one trick pony, played card, get over it!

You know, I hear people say things like that, and I seriously wonder if they've ever actually listened through the Yngwie catalog. I've been listening to his music for over 20 years now, and I find something new in it just about every time. It's always a new experience for me. That's quite an accomplishment for a one-trick-pony-played-card, don't you think?

Like I always say, some people get Yngwie's music and some people don't. It happened to resonate with me right from the start, and I have never been disappointed. And I'm glad that Yngwie never wastes my time either on weird experiments or descent into empty-headed trendiness.

And personally, I don't really put that much value on innovation anyway. For millenia, most art has been a variation on something that somebody else already did. The cult of originality is a very modern anomaly. I was originally just responding to the ludicrous idea that Kurt Cobain was innovative in any way, shape, or form. (And the object of my response may have been a misinterpretation of a post.)

Yngwie started doing something that others had only dabbled in. And while imitators have come and gone, he's the only one that has unswervingly stayed the course. There is great variety in his music, but it is within the parameters of the type of music that he wants to do. And the type of music that I want to hear. If he started doing African chants and techno, or something like that, there would be no reason for me to listen anymore.

Kurt Cobain merely recycled what had been done by an uncountable number of other bands. It got notoriety largely because he was essentially covering bands that had never been well-known, and he hit the whiny adolescent market with whiny adolescent lyrics and attitude. Rebelliousness and malcontent are an easy sell in the raging-hormone teenage market. It doesn't take any musical talent to milk that market.

Come to think of it, it's basically the same as Metallica. Recycled, over-hyped, over-rated, playing to the lowest common denominator, jr. high school lyrics, significantly more image than substance, etc. If Cobain hadn't killed himself, his latest release would probably have sounded like monkeys rolling down a hill in an aluminium garbage can, just like St. Anger. They were pretty close to that sound anyway.

My favorite Nirvana song is Weird Al's parody of "Smells Like Teen Spirit."

 

[Zax666]

FYI:
I never said I didn't like YJM. I was merely making a point: you can't say someone was being innovative or not, and he was merely recycling old stuff and so on and so on, yadda-yadda-blah-blah... to discredit them.

ALL MUSICIANS DO THIS, to a degree.

BTW, I have about five albums by Yngwie (some of it is in MP3, therefore the 'about'), he IS a one trick pony. He plays Bach and Paganini stuff with LOADS of emotion (even if he goes over the top with his vibrato at times), grabbing your mind and your heart - this is unachievable by most guitarists I can think of, hats off.

But he only does that.

Sometimes I fall into the mood for his music, but once I knew his work better, that mood got more and more rare. Until nowadays, when I listen to his work every coupla months.

N.P. Helloween - A Million To One

 

[Hyoukinmono]

BTW, I have about five albums by Yngwie (some of it is in MP3, therefore the 'about'), he IS a one trick pony.

Well, then anybody who stays chiefly with one genre is a one trick pony. The great classical composers would have to be considered one trick ponies. The only musicians who wouldn't be one trick ponies are the ones who can't seem to figure out what they want to do. Or can't do any of it well enough to be able to stick with it. But regardless, if Yngwie is a one trick pony, then pretty much all of the greats would have to be considered one trick ponies.

But I still think that you must be missing what is going on in Yngwie's music. I find a wide range of variety in his music, but again, it's within a certain style. That pony has got a lot of tricks within that range.

 

[Zax666]

The way you said it, it seemed like Steve Vai doesn't know what he wants to do.
He could have stayed with his Passion & Warfare style all life long - he had great, recodnisable chops and great tone, even if his compositions were a little to heavy (idea-wise). He changed both a little Alien Love Secrets with generally lighter composition.
He changed both ALOT in Fire Garden. And he still ruled.
And he made a real drama with his transformation in The Ultra Zone. Still kickass.
Quite frankly, I'm really looking forward to his next album, I'm sure it'd be really !

All that time, he managed to keep his indentity, stay within a style AND show us maaany different landscapes with their own atmospheres.

My point is, Yngwie can't to the last one.
He's always (with a few exceptions like The Only One) bringing on this mystical, epic atmosphere and that's it. Oh yeah, he can do rock'n roll and Deep Purple too. That's a three-trick-pony, sorry.

Not to mention, his tone is scratchy.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Agreed, Vai could very well be the most versatile guitarist in metal. Yngwie has stuck to his style, and I admit he's recycled a lot of his material. Still, I think he was incredibly original with his sound, and had a HUGE impact on the world of guitar, the affects of which can still be plainly seen today.