Best Sound yet?

[Xtopher]

Ive been reading everywhere that Iconoclast has an almost perfect sound for a metal band, but that could be also a matter of taste. I, for one, loved the sound of V, and hated the sound of The Odyssey but many think exactly the opposite. Paradise Lost was better but too much guitar in the mix, keys were lost.

Well, i actually like the sound of the album very much, the mix is really good, i can really apreciate every instrument and even in songs like the self titled where there are parts that have all kinds of keyboard sounds like trumpets, strings, bells, mechanic-like sounds, all mixed up and above it all the crunching riffs, everything can be heard perfectly.

Is Iconoclast the best sound yet for a SX album?

pd. the only thing i dont like at all is the sound of rullo´s ride cymbal. It doesnt have any force or tinkle lol.

 

[Pamonha]

I agree. V was good, but I liked Odyssey better. Pulling out a song like odyssey is already though, making it sound like Romeo did, and almost by himself, it's almost unbelievable.

Paradise Lost was almost better, but the guitars were too loud.

Iconoclast remembers me of both V and Odyssey mix, because of its heavyness. But what I really think is way bettr is Rullo's Snare and Bassdrum. Now it sounds like a true Drum Kit, and it perfectly fit the albums need for heavyness.

 

[Marwen]

Technically speaking or personal preference? (based on which one should we vote?) If the former then I'd say it's definitely Iconoclast's. I'm sure any sound engineer would agree. Next is PL, and then The Odyssey and so forth.

My personal favorite however is V's. It's not "perfect" especially by today's standards, but I really love the guitar and keyboard tones.

My least favorite is Twilight's (and I'm not counting Damnation Game or the self-titled album, those are really old). Twilight's tone is just not that good, I'd say DWOT's is better even though it's older. But I think Twilight's music makes up for it.

All in all, Symphony did not have the best production around back in the old days; thanks to the music however you don't really feel it. Recently they caught up really well and their sound is, imo, one of the BEST in metal.

 

[Sep3]

I'm one of those who really doesn't care much about V's sound. Odyssey and DWoT are both really good soundwise imo, you can hear all instruments clearly and nothing stands out annoyingly. DWoT guitars could be better tho, but they are for sure much better than on V/Twilight.

Paradise Lost had guitars drowning everything. Iconoclast is also really good, but I'm not so sure if I like the "mechanical" synth sounds as some of them are like from some classic game console to me. Solos also seem to be rather loud on that and I'm not so sure if I like all of the drum sounds either. Especially the tom drums sound rather strange for SX.

Odyssey just kicks ass on so many levels that I don't know if any record compares to it, let it be production- or materialwise.

But yeah, I suppose technically speaking the best sound would definitely be on Iconoclast still. I guess it's also unique in it's own way and still doesn't sound like a generic metal band.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

the only thing i dont like at all is the sound of rullo´s ride cymbal. It doesnt have any force or tinkle lol.

It's very important for metal to have a strong "tinkle," isn't it? ;D

This is a very difficult question, since every album has something that sounds "off" to me when it comes to the instruments and their levels. Here I'll compare the last four albums and what I liked and disliked about the mix.

V: The New Mythology Suite
- overall "flat" sound
- guitars were lower, which was cool (every instrument closer in the mix, like a real symphony)
- keys were a bit more prominent (I like)
- bass tone was a bit muddy

The Odyssey
- guitars were louder but not overwhelming
- bass tone wasn't good; too compressed for me

Paradise Lost
- album was extremely "loud" overall
- aside from the keys, the mix was good (although guitars were too loud)
- awesome bass tone (Lepond's best yet)

Iconoclast
- guitars even louder than PL (me no like)
- bass tone was not as good as PL, and also lower in the mix (not cool)
- I'm not a drummer but I'd say this album has the best drum tone
- keys are louder than PL (although I greatly dislike the more mechanical patches)

I had to pick Iconoclast overall, since V sounded too flat, The Odyssey had a bad bass tone/level, and PL was too overly loud. This album simply has the best tone, although the bass could have come up and the guitars could have come down (or just one of the two I suppose).

 

[Matt]

The Odyssey's mix was perfect, aside from the keyboards being slightly undervalued, but that was more due to the songwriting I think.

Iconoclast's mix isn't bad either, though poor songwriting overshadow's that.

 

[Vrimmel]

What do you mean by sound? If it's sound editing you mean I Paradise Lost is the best produced album in my opinion. All the sounds are sharp and characteristic.

With Iconoclast I find myself having to adjust the equalizer settings a lot to enjoy it.

 

[Marwen]

(although I greatly dislike the more mechanical patches)

but I'm not so sure if I like the "mechanical" synth sounds as some of them are like from some classic game console to me.

I take it you guys never listen to any film music, IDM, or (good) electronic music.

I actually like the mechanical synth sounds on Iconoclast, it's pretty cool. But to be honest, I expected more of them (and better/more interesting). I expected from Romeo to include more of the mechanical sounds and effects, especially mixed with the orchestration.

The Odyssey's mix was perfect

The Odyssey's mix was definitely NOT perfect, especially when it comes to the bass and the bass drum. The mix is slightly flawed in those areas. The orchestral samples and mix wasn't that great either. The album's production is an improvement over everything preceding it nevertheless.

 

[BARBAROUSSE]

Paradise Lost
- album was extremely "loud" overall
- aside from the keys, the mix was good (although guitars were too loud)
- awesome bass tone (Lepond's best yet)

i find the keys TOO low in the mix to the point that it almost ruined the whole album for me .i simply get the feeling that i have never really listened to the 'real' album .that s why i keep avoiding PL cause each time i listen to it i get frustrated by the idea that it could sound ridiculously much better it the keys were audible and if the guitars were a bit lower ....it 's a good album nonetheless .

 

[Xtopher]

Technically speaking or personal preference?

I guess what I meant was best sound technically speaking, but i think personal preference would be a more interesting question. Specially if you explain why is it better for you.

If that were the question, i´d say V, i really love the overall sound but i guess Iconoclast would be the best sound technically speaking.

no one else is bothered by the ride cymbal? it really stands out to me as the worst thing about the sound of the album. I guess im alone on that.

 

[maestro41]

i find the keys TOO low in the mix to the point that it almost ruined the whole album for me .i simply get the feeling that i have never really listened to the 'real' album .that s why i keep avoiding PL cause each time i listen to it i get frustrated by the idea that it could sound ridiculously much better it the keys were audible and if the guitars were a bit lower ....it 's a good album nonetheless .

I think the keys in IC are too low and have an odd voice/tone. The mix is good otherwise.

 

[Sep3]

no one else is bothered by the ride cymbal? it really stands out to me as the worst thing about the sound of the album. I guess im alone on that.

I think all the cymbals sound a bit odd and they are too low in the mix for my taste. Also the toms aren't quite as snappy as I like them.

 

[RuRoRul]

I'm not sure... V has a great sound but it is very odd and took a while to get into, so I don't think I'd say that's the best sound. DWOT and before just don't have as good production as the more recent stuff imo, and The Odyssey's production definitely doesn't strike me as being the best, although it's not bad. Paradise Lost has a very good sound and I would probably say that, but I do agree with it being too loud in places. Twilight In Olympus I actually have no problems with the production on, even though I know it isn't much different from DWOT.

Which leaves me with Iconoclast. I think this one does have the best production, but it's hard for me to say because it doesn't have as much of the symphonic stuff and has a more mechanical, futuristic sound in places. Obviously it's meant to be this way though, and it's more because the songs simply don't have as much of that and nothing to do with the production, so yeah, I'm probably going to say Iconoclast has their best sound. When All Is Lost gives a better idea of what the production of that album would be like for some older songs, and I think it sounds amazing.

 

[Sep3]

I take it you guys never listen to any film music, IDM, or (good) electronic music.

Not much, but saying never would be bit of an exaggeration on my account. Some of my friends are into all kinds of techno hassle and I've had to listen to Tiesto and that kind of stuff quite a lot actually. On my own I've been listening to electronic music just a little, something like Deadmau5 and Pendulum, but it's really not much.

BUT, some bands that I like got a very electronic sound, such as Shining, Arcturus and Ulver. Even Devin Townsend uses electronic sounds here and there. It's just that I find that kind of sound a bit out of place with SX as it's usually been at most digi strings/choir on top of the few leads and a mass of sample based patches.

 

[Xtopher]

. But to be honest, I expected more of them (and better/more interesting). I expected from Romeo to include more of the mechanical sounds and effects, especially mixed with the orchestration.

Actually i also expected more of that too. They went on and on in previous interviews that the new album was all about machines and mechanical sounds and the only ones i could barely notice were the bits in the song Iconoclast.

Now that i think about it, the album doesnt say "mechanical" when you listen through it honestly, its more heavy than anything. If you show some songs to a random guy and tell him its suposed to be "mechanical prog metal" (yeah, i know), then he would say "GTFO thats not even close".

 

[RuRoRul]

If you show some songs to a random guy and tell him its suposed to be "mechanical prog metal" (yeah, i know), then he would say "GTFO thats not even close".

Actually, more likely he would say "WTF is that?"

But yeah I agree, the mechanical / futuristic sound wasn't that prevalent. I do think there was quite a lot of it though - Iconoclast, Dehumanized (at the beginning), the keyboards in Bastards Of The Machine, and the guitar sound in Electric Messiah spring to mind. The songs do kind of feel more mechanical overall but it's not like the actual sounds come up all the time, just now and again, which I'm Ok with.

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

Although the Iconoclast drum sound is not bad by any means, I am just not a huge fan.
I find the highs too quiet, and I just don't love the bass and snare sound.

I still find Opeth's Ghost Reveries, and Dark Sun's Grave Human Genuine to be top-quality drum sounds.
I also love Gavin Harrison's sound in general.

 

[SyXified]

Over the years I have moved to the opinion that the overall picture painted by the sonic landscape is far more important than any individual instrument's sound in isolation (which is, in truth, a ridiculous way to look at things, seeing there is no value to having that sound in isolation; there is only value in context). As a guitarist I used to try to separate out the guitar sound from everything else and judge it on that basis. In that respect some of the rhythm sounds achieved on PL and IC are fantastic. But now I tend to care about the guitar sound in context, which for me has made a lot of "crummy" guitars through "crappy" amps valuable and excellent.

This is why I think V has by far the best sound. It is the most unique and instantly identifiable, and most importantly it is perfectly suited to the story and mood of the album. The sound on V instantly evokes for me certain colors and textures and emotions associated with that album/story. IC sounds like a well produced album by a metal band; V sounds like V. One of the best achievements in sound, I find, is when you almost lose cognizance of the individual instruments and instead hear the album in textures. On DWoT I could tell you exactly what the guitar is doing at any given moment; on V, despite having listened to that album a billion times, there are points where I only know what the MUSIC is doing. To me, that is what defines good sound--when you stop picturing musicians playing their instruments in a recording studio you are in the presence of a good sound (certain inapplicable genres excluded of course).

 

[maestro41]

This is why I think V has by far the best sound. It is the most unique and instantly identifiable, and most importantly it is perfectly suited to the story and mood of the album. The sound on V instantly evokes for me certain colors and textures and emotions associated with that album/story. IC sounds like a well produced album by a metal band; V sounds like V. One of the best achievements in sound, I find, is when you almost lose cognizance of the individual instruments and instead hear the album in textures. On DWoT I could tell you exactly what the guitar is doing at any given moment; on V, despite having listened to that album a billion times, there are points where I only know what the MUSIC is doing. To me, that is what defines good sound--when you stop picturing musicians playing their instruments in a recording studio you are in the presence of a good sound (certain inapplicable genres excluded of course).

I see your points here but I think what you are also describing is the artistry as opposed to the mix on V. just my .02

 

[maestro41]

Actually i also expected more of that too. They went on and on in previous interviews that the new album was all about machines and mechanical sounds and the only ones i could barely notice were the bits in the song Iconoclast.

Now that i think about it, the album doesnt say "mechanical" when you listen through it honestly, its more heavy than anything. If you show some songs to a random guy and tell him its suposed to be "mechanical prog metal" (yeah, i know), then he would say "GTFO thats not even close".

I noticed some of the chord progressions , I think in either in Heretic or Reign in Madness sound like metal clanging together intentionally with two dissonant chord voicings. MJR said something like the mechanical sounds of the keyboard and distorted drums. I havent heard the latter but the keys tones in End of Innocense have a circuity sound I guess you coiuld say. He also mentioned that some progressions would be in 6 and some instruments would follow playing in 4 or something like that, indicative of two different gears meshing together, but lots of music is like that, certainly metal, not even necessarily prog. IMO.