Black Metal and Death Metal

Crimson Velvet said:
In Flames was to me the epitome of the Gothenberg scene. Then Clayman came out. :(

I agree that At the Gates deserves a mention for death metal, although Slaughter of the Soul was a complete sell out.

But people who haven't really, really need to check out Immortal. First four albums for classic norwegian black metal, and the later three for more accesible, but still great, black metal. They have been my favorite band for twelve years now. :)
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LOL @ calling at the gates sellouts, and then saying the last few immortal albums were "great black metal".....WOW. :tickled:
 
Uh... Would you mind adding some sense to that comment?

Newer Immortal is at least not dumbed down metal that followed every other trend of the surrounding scene at the time.
 
Would someone pelase offer a decent arguement instead of just throwing crap?

Allow me to offer some, just in case you have all forgotten how it goes:

Slaughter of the Soul,
gone are the complex riffing,
gone are the At the Gates trademark tempo changes,
gone are the progressive structures,
here are the sleek production,
here are the melodies that are closer to the other Gothenburg bands that made quite good success at the time (key arguement),
here are a style that resembles speed metal more than death metal.
 
Crimson Velvet said:
Would someone pelase offer a decent arguement instead of just throwing crap?

Allow me to offer some, just in case you have all forgotten how it goes:

Slaughter of the Soul,
gone are the complex riffing,
gone are the At the Gates trademark tempo changes,
gone are the progressive structures,
here are the sleek production,
here are the melodies that are closer to the other Gothenburg bands that made quite good success at the time (key arguement),
here are a style that resembles speed metal more than death metal.
Click to expand...
adding some sense? my statement made perfect sense.

slaughter of the soul had complex enough riffing. "trademark" tempo changes...god forbid the band doesnt make a 5th album that sounds exactly the same as the rest. At the gates WAS NEVER "progressive" enough to have "progressive structures". Slaughter of the soul hardly had a "sleek" production...maybe smoother than previous albums...but nothing to indicate selling out MR IMMORTAL. :Smug: And as for their Melodies copying other gothenburg bands...that may be true in some cases, but a band starting to sound like 5 other bands in the broad spectrum is a ludicrous argument...not to mention completely irrelevant when accusing them of "selling out" when that small handful of bands they were "copying" werent making ANY money at all.

The things you commented on suggest change or freshness for the musicians, not "selling out". idiot...stop being such an elitest scrooge.
 
This is great. I have nothing to say, hence the reason i made the thread. However to all of you who've posted, thank you for the enlightenment I've been afforded because of you.

What do I get out of this?

A great discussion, opposing views, and a damn nice bunch of bands to check out! :devil:
 
Before I explain what I think the different between black and death metal is, let me state that I in no way think that Cradle of Filth is black metal, they are gothic metal. Not because they arent "tr00" but simply because if you listen to their music and then listen to any other black metal band its clearly not alike.

Anyway, the difference between black and death. Their images are very different, death metal bands usually look like regular metalheads you can see walking down the street, just t shirt and jeans, long hair. Black metal bands usually dye their hair black, wear corpsepaint, and wear spikes and shit, usually. Not in all cases. Black metal music contrary to popular belief doesnt have to be shitty quality, some bands use the bad quality to create a sense of atmosphere, but I know plenty of black metal bands that are considered "Tr00" that have great quality. Death metal bands vocals are grunting low pitched vocals where black metal vocals are shrieking. Death metal is usually tuned very lower. Death metal uses a lot of blast beats and fast tempos where as in black metal blast beats and fast tempos arent used a lot(dont let marduk fool you). Lyrics in death are usually about mutilation, death, violence, gruesome things, where as in black metal its mostly about satanic things or forests or mountains, northern lands, etc. Thats basically all I can think of.
 
Although "With Fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness" and "The Red in the Sky is Ours" are totaly superior to "Slaughter of the Soul", I still think SotS is fucking great.

Any fans of early At the Gates NEED to check out Eucharist's "A Velvet Creation".
 
NineFeetUnderground said:
adding some sense? my statement made perfect sense.

slaughter of the soul had complex enough riffing. "trademark" tempo changes...god forbid the band doesnt make a 5th album that sounds exactly the same as the rest. At the gates WAS NEVER "progressive" enough to have "progressive structures". Slaughter of the soul hardly had a "sleek" production...maybe smoother than previous albums...but nothing to indicate selling out MR IMMORTAL. :Smug: And as for their Melodies copying other gothenburg bands...that may be true in some cases, but a band starting to sound like 5 other bands in the broad spectrum is a ludicrous argument...not to mention completely irrelevant when accusing them of "selling out" when that small handful of bands they were "copying" werent making ANY money at all.

The things you commented on suggest change or freshness for the musicians, not "selling out". idiot...stop being such an elitest scrooge.
Click to expand...

Slaughter of the Soul had tempo changes? I disagree (perhaps a few, but hardly any, compared to prior releases).
At the Gates was never progressive? I disagree.
Slaughter of the Soul had complex riffing? That's just stupid...
And Slaughter was released in '95, if I remember correctly. Same as The Gallery, after Lunar Strain, after A Velvet Creation, after As Tears, after The Book of Truth, same as Carpet, same as The Burning. And the list goes on and on! A trend started, and they jumped on the band wagon as soon as possible.

And I agree, a band shouldn't make releases that sounds exactly like each other, but At the Gates had already made four great releases that didn't sound alike, but were still excellent. They shouldn't have gotten rid of Alf Svensson, as it seems he was the innovative one, because there's nothing innovative about this album. Why did they have to water and dumb it down? And at the exact same time as when the Gothenburg scene started getting some slight media coverage, and a wide fanbase? You don't have to be an elitist to recognize this.

And Immortal didn't sell out by any standards. They had a change of stringmen, and Abbath had a different take on it than Demonaz. Their sound became much broader, but the brutality was still there, and the technicality only became greater. Immortal changed without saccrificing anything. The ony thing that bothers me is that Abbath started using distortion on his voice, but that's hardly selling out.

One thing that also needs to be said, is that Slaughter of the Soul is not really a bad album. It's only if you see it context with At the Gates' other albums that this becomes bad. As a melodeath album, it's about twice as good as The Haunted ever became, although never reaching the higts of Dark Tranquillity or In Flames at their peak.
 
I so very much prefer black to death metal. Though so many bands sound alike, there are a few bands (Immortal, Darkthrone) who try to do something a little different from the rest. Darkthrone's Soulside Journey sounded somewhat death-ish, though I swear there were some great doom parts in there as well. Immortal are cool in the fact that they never adhered to the whole Arayan vibe that their fellow brethren (Mayhem, Graveland) gave voice to.
 
Your argument is pretty contradictory based purely on YOUR taste.

Youre saying that At the gates (a death metal band) sold out, for becoming less technical.

and youre saying Immortal (a black metal band) didnt sell out for becoming more technical, and more fruity.

Theres about 100000000 black metal fans that would say immortal sold out for the reasons youre saying they got better.

Simply because YOU like newer immortal, and dislike newer At The Gates, doesnt mean youre right, or that one has sold out and the other hasnt.

You really need to pick an angle and stick to it.

Just say you dont like At The Gate's later style. Calling them "sell outs" doesnt hold much water considering your reasoning for liking newer immortal.
 
When it comes to music genres, "I Could Care Less", as Dez sez. If it sounds good to me, I'll listen to it, from the most easy listening classical stuff to the most brutal blackest of the black metal.
 
NineFeetUnderground said:
Just say you dont like At The Gate's later style. Calling them "sell outs" doesnt hold much water considering your reasoning for liking newer immortal.
Click to expand...

Oh man, this is fucking great... here's my take on it.

YES he can think ATG sold out with Slaughter of the Soul while thinking the later Immortal albums are still great!

YES you can disagree with him...

YES you can be a complete moron and try to tell this guy how to think when it's clearly his own opinion and shouldn't be a problem for you...

...but don't expect him to actually change his mind based on what someone else tells him.

And don't EVER call anyone else an elitist again. Please, it's too funny! I almost died.
 
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