Black Metal and Death Metal

JRSellers said:
I totally agree with both you and Inconium Guard. Good music also transcends things like politics and reigion.
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What the fuck do politics and religion have to do with genres? If a word has no definition, it is meaningless. This works the same as bands and genre's. Mixing, matching, innovating... it's all derived from somewhere, and needs a solid ground to stand upon.
 
Demilich said:
I almost died.
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yes, what a shame you didnt.


Its also my right to disagree with his opinion, and point out his hypocritical reasoning...so what it is to you?

who are you anyway? i dont really recall you being part of his and my debate before you chimed in here? maybe take your own advice? :Smug:
 
Seeing as this is highly subjectice, I would say that it's unfair to call my opinions hypocritical. Then I would have to say that every band who've ever changed their sound over the years are sellouts, but the only major ones I can think of right now are At the Gates and In Flames.

Anyways, I acknowledge your opinion, and I always enjoy a good discussion, be it about music or politics, but now I fear that this will only degenerate into name-calling, so maybe we should just leave it at that.
 
Slaughter of the soul was innovative in the aspect of thrash riffing. Technically, there is nothing original on the album...but the extensive use of the straight forward Gothenburg trademark thrashing really helped make that album a classic. The gallery, carpet, lunar strain, a velvet creation etc were all different albums than Slaughter of the soul. Yes, they're all melodic death...but there's still a big difference to make Slaughter of the soul less "trend hopping" and more "unique." It was more straight forward, angry, thrashing..but it still had diversity like other melodic death albums of the time. In conclusion...Slaughter of the soul > you.
 
You're completely missing my point. Slaughter of the Soul is not a bad album, if you don't see it perspective. My arguement is that At the Gates sold out, namely because they went from being a death metal band to a Gothenburg band at the same time that the scene's poplularity grew.
 
Crimson Velvet said:
You're completely missing my point. Slaughter of the Soul is not a bad album, if you don't see it perspective. My arguement is that At the Gates sold out, namely because they went from being a death metal band to a Gothenburg band at the same time that the scene's poplularity grew.
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At the Gates progressed along with the Gothenburg bands(who were playing more technical complex shit in the early 90s similar to AtG), so AtG didn't all of sudden make some weird change to sound "Gothenburg" with Sots. Making a straight forward thrashy gothenburg album was never done before until SotS was recorded. At the gates were playing Gothenburg material on "With fear I kiss the burning darkness", and DEFINTELY "Terminal spirit disease" anyway. So even if they did "sell out"...it certainly wasn't with Slaughter of the soul. Just because Slaughter of the soul isn't as "technical" or "death metal" as Gardens of Grief or Red in the Sky is ours dosen't mean they "sold out." The music still was extreme, non commercial, and unique compared to other Gothenburg bands. Thinking a record like "Slaughter of the soul" as a "sellout" record is just absurd, even if it pales in comparion to AtG's back catalog...Might as well call "My arms, your hearse" a sellout record.
 
How does that compare with My Arms, Your Hearse? That line of progression was 100% different.

And I suppose I've been using the term Gothenburg too loosely. I agree that At the Gates were making Gothenburg metal before Slaughter of the Soul, but not in such a commercial way. And besides, just because an album has certain thrash aspects doesn't redeem it from the sellout stamp. I stand by my arguement that Slaughter was simply a dumbed down version of earlier At the Gates, and it was released at a time that made me think that they had jumped on the Gothenburg trend that was happening in the scene in those days. And no; the music was not unique compared to other Gothenburg bands, and it certainly wasn't extreme (although I guess that is highly subjective).
 
the only reason why death would be considered a ''death metal" band would be because there wasnt alot of band that had sounded as raw and hard as they did back then. having the high screechy voice to add to the mix added fuel to the fire. coming from florida where basically all death metal spawned in the US as well. scream bloody gore was there first album and having the track names like infernal death, mutilation and so on. the defining death metal bands and there attractions IMO are: brutal truth-need to control, cannibal corpse-tomb of the mutilated, carcass- heartwork, death- scream bloody gore, deicide- once upon the cross, dismember-indecent and obscene, morbid angel-blessed are the sick, heretic, mortician-hacked up for barbecue, napalm death-fear, emptiness, and despair, and sepultura-chaos A.D
now im sure that there are people that will disagree with me but then again thats a matter of opinion.

now for black metal its been said already in this thread enough
but id like to add some cds i believe are some good material.
dimmu borgir- stormblast
emperor- in the nightside eclipse
immortal- sons of northern darkness
bathory- under the sign of the black mark

one last thing. ive tried to read books on what bands and there cds started a genre and most of them dont really make sense to me. one book said that Destruction was part of the early black metal outfit as well as Slayer and Morbid Angel. because of there lyrics and what they sang about. music should be fitted into a catagory based on the MUSIC. not the lyrics....
i do believe thats why its called music.
 
deliverance said:
this is a different case, you're not down talking him because of when he joined, but usually you're all about letting people know when they joined. i always enjoy that haha.
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well, i realize it really holds no bearing on anything typically.

But i do know that back in january of 2002 when i joined...i didnt start calling everyone who had been here from the start a bunch of idiots, and shooting my mouth off like a douchebag....

i waited a year or two before i started doing that. ;)
 
NineFeetUnderground said:
Your join date: April 2003......so how could you be pissing me off for "years"?:err:
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Sure feels like years. We've even almost gotten along for a bit, but getting you worked up over prog and other nonsense is so much more fun :)
 
Would anyone consider Satyricon's Volcano a black metal album? I'm asking because, like the thread starter, I'm still not sure myself. Vocally, it seems to match the definitions here, but productionwise, its very clean and polished. And muscially, the tempos (particularly on "Black Lava") seem too slow to meet the qualifications of black metal. I like it.
 
Demilich said:
Sure feels like years. We've even almost gotten along for a bit, but getting you worked up over prog and other nonsense is so much more fun :)
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being passionate about something...and getting "worked up" are 2 different things. but youre welcome to try.

perhaps i didnt recognize you because of your new avatar.
 
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