Nasty-Fire
Discursion
Wow! And you are talking about objectivity!? Isn't it absurd, just a little?
Borderline Black Metal?
- Thread starter Defluo
- Start date
Wow! And you are talking about objectivity!? Isn't it absurd, just a little?
hibernal_dream
A Mind Forever Voyaging
Cerberus III
New Metal Member
- May 14, 2008
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Vivören
New Metal Member
liquidcow
Member
SerenityNow!
*burp*
Well I have absolutely no problem with people who stand up against religion. I personnally think it's the world's #1 killer, with oil being a close 2nd. I also don't have a problem with religious people, seeing as they keep it to themselves. And Satanism doesn't scare or disturb me, either. I just don't see the point in it, I guess. If you want to be anti-Christian (by the way, if you believe in one, you must believe in the other, or it just doesn't make any sence) that's fine with me, but you have a lot of these BM bands that are nothing more than preachers, when you really look at it. They're just spreading THEIR religion, and way too many have more of the same shit to say. It's an old and worn out subject. I don't care what religion anyone is. I could meet the coolest person tomorrow, and never find out he/she is a turd worshipper. I don't care and I don't care to know. Preachy bible toters make me sick and so do any preachy people/bands.
Now I know there are "black metal" bands that don't sing about Satan. They sing about folklore, forests, mythology, history and more interesting things. But that isn't totally "black metal" in my opinion. It's got the musical influences, along with other influences. So what exactly would make that "black metal"? Viking metal is a perfect example of this. It isn't "black". I have no problem with Paganism, again, as long as it doesn't get preachy. Bands that sing about their beliefs are merely trying to make statements that the majority of the world really doesn't care about. I like storytelling in my songs.
Seeing as corpsepaint was used in history and in mythology is great, but now everyone and their brother is doing it only for entertainment value, and at the same time taking themselves way too fucking seriously.
People, I'm not trying to put BM down for those who like it, and I'm not trying to steer others away from it. I'm merely stating my opinion on it, and if you can't handle it, then write a song about it!! But I won't like it because, like a lot of these bands (TO ME), are too preachy and bitch too much. It's why I can't stand gangsta rap; more bitching. Drive-by shootings or church burnings, take your pick.
Besides, Christianity has destroyed a lot more than pagan customs.
Now I know there are "black metal" bands that don't sing about Satan. They sing about folklore, forests, mythology, history and more interesting things. But that isn't totally "black metal" in my opinion. It's got the musical influences, along with other influences. So what exactly would make that "black metal"? Viking metal is a perfect example of this. It isn't "black". I have no problem with Paganism, again, as long as it doesn't get preachy. Bands that sing about their beliefs are merely trying to make statements that the majority of the world really doesn't care about. I like storytelling in my songs.
Seeing as corpsepaint was used in history and in mythology is great, but now everyone and their brother is doing it only for entertainment value, and at the same time taking themselves way too fucking seriously.
People, I'm not trying to put BM down for those who like it, and I'm not trying to steer others away from it. I'm merely stating my opinion on it, and if you can't handle it, then write a song about it!! But I won't like it because, like a lot of these bands (TO ME), are too preachy and bitch too much. It's why I can't stand gangsta rap; more bitching. Drive-by shootings or church burnings, take your pick.
Besides, Christianity has destroyed a lot more than pagan customs.
Sorry bro but the musical values of these so-called "Viking metal" bands are black metal values, ergo they're an extension of black metal. They're just singing about their mythology and history, rather than being nihilistic and condemning humanity and religion.
Not sure why you're still harping on your trite, contrived arguement that you have to believe in God to believe in Satan, considering I just disproved that with the definition of LeVeyan Satanism (which several black metal bands write about, rather than the theistic version of Satanism that you're still referring to.) The second wave of black metal, that you're referring to almost exclusively, was started as an anti-death metal and anti-Christianity movement. Hence why some bands from that age were writing about Satanism and killing Christians etc. Other bands moved on and started writing other sorts of lyrical content (ie Mayhem and Darkthrone.) Newer bands don't even write about Satan (ie Negura Bunget and Austere.) Shining writes about killing yourself. Mortuus/Arioch and Morgan from Marduk take Biblical ideas and turn them around on the religion on the last two record; they don't make it preachy, however.
Your argument is comparable to the argument that Cannibal Corpse is bad because they "preach" about violence. They're not "preaching" about anything, they're just telling stories. It's the same thing with these black metal bands. They're telling stories about their beliefs. Perhaps you should research these lyrics more clearly before you start denouncing things that you don't know. Shit dude, on "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" there's not one mention of Satan whatsoever. On "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" only the title track references Satan.
Not sure why you're still harping on your trite, contrived arguement that you have to believe in God to believe in Satan, considering I just disproved that with the definition of LeVeyan Satanism (which several black metal bands write about, rather than the theistic version of Satanism that you're still referring to.) The second wave of black metal, that you're referring to almost exclusively, was started as an anti-death metal and anti-Christianity movement. Hence why some bands from that age were writing about Satanism and killing Christians etc. Other bands moved on and started writing other sorts of lyrical content (ie Mayhem and Darkthrone.) Newer bands don't even write about Satan (ie Negura Bunget and Austere.) Shining writes about killing yourself. Mortuus/Arioch and Morgan from Marduk take Biblical ideas and turn them around on the religion on the last two record; they don't make it preachy, however.
Your argument is comparable to the argument that Cannibal Corpse is bad because they "preach" about violence. They're not "preaching" about anything, they're just telling stories. It's the same thing with these black metal bands. They're telling stories about their beliefs. Perhaps you should research these lyrics more clearly before you start denouncing things that you don't know. Shit dude, on "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" there's not one mention of Satan whatsoever. On "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" only the title track references Satan.
SerenityNow!
*burp*
Well "bro" Satan originated from Christian beliefs, so where did they get the name from? Where, when, why and how did the term "black" come into play?
And holy shit!! Cannibal Corpse!! Are you serious?? No I don't think they're preachy, and they definitely don't take themselves too seriously. Not that I'm a fan, but I won't get into that because I might offend someone else here as well...
I've already spoken my opinion, and no I guess I haven't heard every BM band out there, and to tell you the truth, we can go on and on about this, and I really don't care about it this much. So I'm sorry for offending you, you seem like an intelligent kid (and a Wikipedia master, at that). Theistic, Leveyan, God, Satan, Allah, Buddah, aliens, cows, frogs, trees, rocks, whatever. Don't get so defensive, it's a tough world out there.
Cheers!
And holy shit!! Cannibal Corpse!! Are you serious?? No I don't think they're preachy, and they definitely don't take themselves too seriously. Not that I'm a fan, but I won't get into that because I might offend someone else here as well...
I've already spoken my opinion, and no I guess I haven't heard every BM band out there, and to tell you the truth, we can go on and on about this, and I really don't care about it this much. So I'm sorry for offending you, you seem like an intelligent kid (and a Wikipedia master, at that). Theistic, Leveyan, God, Satan, Allah, Buddah, aliens, cows, frogs, trees, rocks, whatever. Don't get so defensive, it's a tough world out there.
Cheers!
in_my_time_of_disease
Whipping Post
+1 Dig deeper and you won't think bm is "crap" A lot of the best metal bands atm are bm imo. There is a lot or horrendous music in bm, but like most genres is has it's gems.
SerenityNow!
*burp*
I never said "crap". You've got the wrong guy unless you're talking to someone else. Anyway I've listened to some and for me it's hit or miss. This is just going to go on and on, isn't it. I guess I should keep my opinions to myself, but then I'd expect everyone to keep their own opinions to themselves...then there probably wouldn't be much of a forum; more of a bulletin board.
I do like many styles of music, and there are a few BM bands I can listen to. And I do like a lot of the bands that come out that are made up of members of the BM comunity. These bands tend to stray from the traditional BM and come up with very creative, intelligent music. I guess I just can't get into the corpsepaint traditional BM.
I'm always looking for new music, but like anyone, I have likes and dislikes. There you have it.
I do like many styles of music, and there are a few BM bands I can listen to. And I do like a lot of the bands that come out that are made up of members of the BM comunity. These bands tend to stray from the traditional BM and come up with very creative, intelligent music. I guess I just can't get into the corpsepaint traditional BM.
I'm always looking for new music, but like anyone, I have likes and dislikes. There you have it.
Well I have absolutely no problem with people who stand up against religion. I personnally think it's the world's #1 killer, with oil being a close 2nd. I also don't have a problem with religious people, seeing as they keep it to themselves. And Satanism doesn't scare or disturb me, either. I just don't see the point in it, I guess. If you want to be anti-Christian (by the way, if you believe in one, you must believe in the other, or it just doesn't make any sence) that's fine with me, but you have a lot of these BM bands that are nothing more than preachers, when you really look at it. They're just spreading THEIR religion, and way too many have more of the same shit to say. It's an old and worn out subject. I don't care what religion anyone is. I could meet the coolest person tomorrow, and never find out he/she is a turd worshipper. I don't care and I don't care to know. Preachy bible toters make me sick and so do any preachy people/bands.
Now I know there are "black metal" bands that don't sing about Satan. They sing about folklore, forests, mythology, history and more interesting things. But that isn't totally "black metal" in my opinion. It's got the musical influences, along with other influences. So what exactly would make that "black metal"? Viking metal is a perfect example of this. It isn't "black". I have no problem with Paganism, again, as long as it doesn't get preachy. Bands that sing about their beliefs are merely trying to make statements that the majority of the world really doesn't care about. I like storytelling in my songs.
Seeing as corpsepaint was used in history and in mythology is great, but now everyone and their brother is doing it only for entertainment value, and at the same time taking themselves way too fucking seriously.
People, I'm not trying to put BM down for those who like it, and I'm not trying to steer others away from it. I'm merely stating my opinion on it, and if you can't handle it, then write a song about it!! But I won't like it because, like a lot of these bands (TO ME), are too preachy and bitch too much. It's why I can't stand gangsta rap; more bitching. Drive-by shootings or church burnings, take your pick.
Besides, Christianity has destroyed a lot more than pagan customs.
+1
I know exactly how you feel. But there are *some* good Black Metal bands, you just have to dig really deep to find them.
in_my_time_of_disease
Whipping Post
Nar man, not you Serenity now..this below is who I was referring too.
Oh and if your hate corpse paint and satan as a lyrical context that is the tip of the iceberg as to what bm can offer. But Akercocke and Deathspell Omega both use the occult as a lyrical context but with a shit load more depth/class than pretty much any other metal band.
SerenityNow!
*burp*
I don't mind occult, Satan or anything else. As long as it's story-based. Ghost Reveries has a lot of Satanic references in it, and I don't mind it at all. It's in a story form and, yes, has class.
Corpsepaint on the other hand...I really didn't think this would be such an upstir. Anyhow I do know that a lot of BM bands are getting away from the corpsepaint, and exploring new musical directions. I think that is the way to go. Ii's not that corpsepaint bothers me, I just don't see the point. If people like it, I don't care. Anyway, it's the anti-world bands that get to me. If they don't like the world, they can leave.
To the bands with intelligence and creativity (and are good enough musicians, where they don't need to have face-painting parties), I say rock on!!
Corpsepaint on the other hand...I really didn't think this would be such an upstir. Anyhow I do know that a lot of BM bands are getting away from the corpsepaint, and exploring new musical directions. I think that is the way to go. Ii's not that corpsepaint bothers me, I just don't see the point. If people like it, I don't care. Anyway, it's the anti-world bands that get to me. If they don't like the world, they can leave.
To the bands with intelligence and creativity (and are good enough musicians, where they don't need to have face-painting parties), I say rock on!!
hibernal_dream
A Mind Forever Voyaging
Which bands are you guys talking about exactly? I listen to a lot of so-called "traditional" BM (Immortal, Darkthrone, Burzum, Emperor, Summoning) and none of them worship Satan as a deity, as far as I can tell from listening to it and reading the lyrics.
Also, what does wearing corpse-paint have to do with anything?
Also, what does wearing corpse-paint have to do with anything?
My Arms, Your Purse
I Steal Things
Cerberus III
New Metal Member
- May 14, 2008
- 425
- 0
- 0
I'm entitled to, and stand beside my opinion that black metal is crap.
And by that I mean that I just do not enjoy it.
I'm not trying to put down anyone who enjoys it.
Also, I have no desire to 'try' and get into black metal by 'digging deep' through the genre itself. I don't listen to a band because of the genre it is in. Just because I like Opeth, does not mean I like death metal as a genre. (I know Opeth isn't a 'death metal' band exactly, but obviously has roots there.)
And by that I mean that I just do not enjoy it.
I'm not trying to put down anyone who enjoys it.
Also, I have no desire to 'try' and get into black metal by 'digging deep' through the genre itself. I don't listen to a band because of the genre it is in. Just because I like Opeth, does not mean I like death metal as a genre. (I know Opeth isn't a 'death metal' band exactly, but obviously has roots there.)
in_my_time_of_disease
Whipping Post
Well if you don't enjoy it, then that's fair enough. We have given you some pretty good starting points, so you won't have to dig that much. Plus Burzum, DHG, Negura Bunget and Deathspell Omega for example are all bm, but you will find they share similarities but are by no means the same. There is a lot of variety within black metal, so you would have to not enjoy a lot of it's aspects.
Dude... there's some pretty awesome black metal out there.
Now, I don't like the black metal scene... just not my type of people. But the music kicks ass.
I don't like the whole "Christianity sucks" aspect that a lot of black metal bands revel in, but there are a few bands that stay clear from that.
There seems to be a little bit of ignorance from some on the black metal front here, but that's understandable.
Thought I'd just mention, for the record, that Enslaved don't have delve into Satanism at all, theistic or LeVeyan.
ANYWAY, it doesn't seem that anyone's heard anything from Mikael on this one, does it...
Thought I'd just mention, for the record, that Enslaved don't have delve into Satanism at all, theistic or LeVeyan.
ANYWAY, it doesn't seem that anyone's heard anything from Mikael on this one, does it...
hibernal_dream
A Mind Forever Voyaging
Not since they started doing psychedelic drugs somewhere around the turn of the century, anyhow.
