you haven't seen the all time lows of this board, genius. Search for HotKnifingHash's threads, or some of Clayman's poop and urine selection of posts.
Can In Flames be called In Flames these days?
- Thread starter Darth Jester
- Start date
you haven't seen the all time lows of this board, genius. Search for HotKnifingHash's threads, or some of Clayman's poop and urine selection of posts.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
I was referring to the timing. The fact that a metal or rock band likes Maiden is obviously not surprising.
Hate to spoil it to you, but we are in 2015. You probably don't shit yourself and don't suck on your mothers' nipples now. Yet you are still called Darth Jester. If you can't comprehend this basic concept, then there's not much to say, really.
Thanks, now I'm reading literally the same arguments (with some of the same people) more than a half decade ago. If we'd really want to handle out an all time low award, it should be the fact that some people are still banging their head into the wall for the same reason others (or even them) did for 10+ years now.
I think the release of SOAPF raised some people's hopes that the band might actually improve again. It certainly did for me. I've never been one of those guys who loves the older stuff and despises the newer stuff. I'm fond of R2R (if the production had been better it would have been an excellent album), and have nothing against Come Clarity except the lame artwork. SOAPF is probably my favourite album of the post-Clayman era.
STYE, ASOP and SC are the biggest failures, for me. I actually didn't mind ASOP when it came out, but grew to dislike it over time.
From my own perspective, I believe I still have reason to care and critisise if the band bring out an album I don't like as they've brought out plenty of albums in recent times that I've enjoyed.
If I'd hated everything they did post-Clayman I would have stopped caring about the band a long time ago.
"Still" called? What does that mean? Elaborate.
And if it was possible I would change that name, oh Jester Slave...
True. Back when I knew practically nothing of metal, I legitimately enjoyed the albums from Reroute onward. Then I eventually realized they were a bunch of metalcore/emo crap and before long couldn't stand them.
Still, there was a very small part of me that had some sliver of hope though. Reroute and Come Clarity have a handful of solid songs apiece, Soundtrack has maybe a couple, and even ASOP has Sleepless Again (which would have been great were it not for Anders being total trash).
Then Siren Charms came out, and has not one even remotely decent song. The cover art may as well just have "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" written across it, because it's certainly finally killed off any lingering trace I may have had. Really, I can't imagine how their next album could possibly be less interesting, but somehow I have a sinking feeling they're going to show me just how in a couple years time.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
I said your online nick because I don't know your real name, thought it was obvious. What I meant that you can change an awful lot in 20+ years, yet you are still the same person and you are still called the same. Just think about it: if In Flames would've changed their music in a way you actually enjoyed it more and more, you would not ask for them to change their name. But you don't like the way they changed, so you are bitter, and now you are throwing a tantrum, saying a bunch of things which makes no sense, just because you are angry and disappointed.
And before you tell me that a band is not as complicated as we humans, let me remind you that it is made up of living people, like you and me. I know it's an another basis for the endless debate here, where one side says things must change, while the other one brings up bands which are playing almost the exact same music 200 years later. There is no law for it, and everyone does whatever the hell they want with their project.
My point is, if you want to criticize IF or any band/performer for that matter, don't bring up childish demands, like wanting them to change their name. You want to talk about, how they music sucks now? Then say that, there's no need for rolling around on the ground in frustration.
only4theweak187
Member
- Mar 19, 2014
- 652
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- 43
only4theweak187
Member
- Mar 19, 2014
- 652
- 211
- 43
Slave you and others who blindly defend Siren Charms need to stop trying to use "Bands either change or make the same album over and over". It's really not that simple or just black & white. There are middle grounds there. There's degrees to which a band can change while still sounding good OR bad.
An example of a band doing the same album over and over is Slayer. Every song sounds exactly the same.
Now, there's ways to make different music on each album that still stays true to the personality of a band AND quality of the record preceding it. Without downgrading effort and again the quality of the music. (As well as the band's particular style without abandoning it 100%).
An example of a band doing the same album over and over is Slayer. Every song sounds exactly the same.
Now, there's ways to make different music on each album that still stays true to the personality of a band AND quality of the record preceding it. Without downgrading effort and again the quality of the music. (As well as the band's particular style without abandoning it 100%).
Hey, put it this way, if In Flames had released Clayman > R2R > Come Clarity > SOAPF, I'd be one of those defending the band's new sound and supposed evolution to the hilt.
Unfortunately In Flames have a tendency to drop a turd every second album these days, which is why in a lot of people's eyes their progression has been a failure. If Siren Charms is the culmination of over a decade's worth of experimentation then yeah, it's safe to say these guys are out of ideas.
We won't know for sure until the next album drops. For me, In Flames have never created two poor albums in a row, so if the next album is as shitty or shittier than SC I will probably begin to lose interest in them... but I still have some hope based on their past history.
I do feel like this could be the tipping point though.
Unfortunately In Flames have a tendency to drop a turd every second album these days, which is why in a lot of people's eyes their progression has been a failure. If Siren Charms is the culmination of over a decade's worth of experimentation then yeah, it's safe to say these guys are out of ideas.
We won't know for sure until the next album drops. For me, In Flames have never created two poor albums in a row, so if the next album is as shitty or shittier than SC I will probably begin to lose interest in them... but I still have some hope based on their past history.
I do feel like this could be the tipping point though.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Fixed it for you.
?! Man, I didn't defend SC, stop with this knee-jerk reaction whenever I post something. Read again. The only thing I'm defending is creative freedom among individuals. Whether it results in SOAPF or SC, and whether me, you, or someone else likes one, none, or both of them does not matter - the point is, they have the goddamn right to do it without making a fuss about it and changing their name.
After we accept this basic principle, we can move on and actually discuss and interpret these changes. Acting all autistic like DJ leads nowhere. I mean, it's kinda funny, but if I want comedy, I - and am sure you too - have better sources for that.
edit: Don't tell me they did not stay true to themselves. Don't make TJR the point they have to feed from. Even if you think STYE and ASOP are 0/10, it still sounds very much like In Flames. Probably SC is the strangest one, but it really depends as where we look at it from.
Also, Slayer made their fans angry with God Hates Us All. It's actually my favorite record of them.
Except that it is not evolution. Is change on purpose.
Iron Maiden did 4 bad albums one after the other and I still like that band.
I'd laugh, if that was funny, which it isn't.
My original point in this thread... In Flames is a completely different band these days, apart from having familiar musicians in it.
When Jesper left the band, In Flames ceased to exist. It became something else that is just called In Flames. Jesper was the driving force behind the music (along with Björn) and what is left if the main ingredient is taken away? Something different. It's 50% In Flames now...
Yeah, but Maiden are Maiden. Even their shitty albums are superior to most bands, and their sound has remained pretty similar throughout their career, whether the albums have ultimately been good or bad. They've got some serious pedigree and have never been afraid to be labelled metal, or tried to go soft-rock. Oh, and their vocalist can sing, which obviously helps even when the tracks themselves aren't great.
N'Flaymz meanwhile seem to have an identity crisis every second album or so post-Clayman and drop the audio equivalent of a shit all over the fans. Yes, they go in a 'new direction' but generally that direction is off a cliff.
I thought ASOP was the lowest point for In Flames, but SC now takes that crown. We should be safe for the next album, but if not, I think it may be the end.
Agreed. Bruce Dickinson is also a great singer and one of the best frontmen that are in the music scene today (if not the best). And you're totally right about their sound. THey have changed a lot since the beginning, but you can still recognize them.
I think that they first tried to reach to non-melodeath fans, and now they're trying to reach to non-metal fans.
My thought is that the next album is going to be even worse. They did a big step on SC, a step to move away from what it was IF and to move into commercial music and it's only natural that they follow that step, at least, one more time. What will happen after that will only depend on the reactions from the fans and the sales, primarilly the sales.
I tend to agree, however I thought the same after ASOP and SOAPF turned out pretty damn well imo. So I'm still hopeful...
I should be, if they weren't defending the changes with lame arguments, and the fact that Anders is the main reason to that change, and he wants to "improve his instrument".
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Even the guys who bash on commercially successful IF are generally like SOAPF, so based on this, you are actually representing one of the most radical views towards IF. That alone should be a signal for you.
And how can you take seriously what I just quoted from you? If Jesper was the driving force, basically none of the albums post Clayman would exist, though even Clayman is debatable. Jesper and Björn did the music, and since I've never been there to any of their recording sessions, but neither you, let's assume their contribution musically has been closer to 50-50, than, let's say, 80-20 - a ratio where we could call Jesper a driving force. Now add Anders to the mix, who can be most obviously blamed or praised for the break up with Fredrik Nordström and his production, which, if after Clayman people weren't sure enough, meant a quite big change in their style.
The music remained heavy and melodic, so it's not like you can point your finger on R2R and say "okay, this is where melodic death-metal stops!" Especially since that album had some of the heaviest stuff in the discography up to that point.
Anyway, documentaries 30 years from now decide when did the melodic death-metal died out from IF. The point is, In Flames was Jesper, Björn and Anders, so don't put Jesper on a pedestal. Jesper's last real album was CC, you can really feel on that record that shit has been put together. Even according to Jesper, he did not enjoy recording ASOP as well, the differences between the band members (or some of them, once again, none of us knows The truth) have reached the point where they hated to work each other. This is what Anders meant with his friendship statement about Jesper in one of his interview: it's basically like a marriage gone wrong; if you finally divorce, you can actually remain friends and hang out and laugh and what not, because you love each other in a way, but if you force yourself to stay in the same house with the same problems for ever and ever, then you can't help but hate the other one.
Don't forget that Jesper has recently admitted his problem with depression. I've been arguing about his childish outbursts, but that actually explained everything. Now, I have lived with someone suffering from depression, and in case you don't know, it's like hell. You can grow to live with that person, but if you actually want to be close with them, like working together, you have to be the most patient man in the world. Beyond every expectation actually. I don't think Jesper wanted to leave In Flames, he just became a huge ass obstacle for everyone. If you suffer from depression, your self-esteem is non-existent and you project it onto others all the time. Now add alcohol, his coping method in the mix, and that's not exactly the recipe for a fun time.
Knowing all this, after ASOP I wouldn't even say they lost 33% of the creative force behind their music. Not only Jesper clearly did not like to contribute to ASOP - he said it was a chore, like a mundane job or sth -, Anders and Björn must've still made compromises because of him.
I appreciate that you try to apply math on humans, but it's not how it works. You and me are not a stream of 1s and 0s.
Anyway, pointless to reply to you, because you are either legitimate dumb (or very young, but that's like the same), or just trolling around acting as "NO1 IF FAN SINCE 1940!!!" edit: unless you actually try, of course. In no way would I want to shut down anyone, but at this point, all you did so far is digging your nose without even trying.
