Clarification regarding recent events (rants)...

[GateXII]

Cross posted from "Powerfest overal review" thread...just want to make sure certain people here know:

OK...some clarification is definitely needed here...

First, let me explain why I went off...regarding Velheru. There have recently been suspensions issued to a couple of the negative/know-it-all/one-up posters who have frequented this board. This was done because it just became too excessive!! We're trying to gain interest for the fest, not give new people (lurkers) an impression that it sucks in any way if they're on the fence about attending. Sorry, but this is completely business & marketing based...and although it would be nice for it not to be, it's quite necessary if we hope to keep building the fest to be bigger & better.

For example...if I were, say, an average or new metal fan (a kid, realistically) who just found out about the Powerfest & wanted to see how it did this year to see if it might be something I'd want to go to next year just to check out some cool metal bands...and I read all these negative criticisms on the forum ACTUALLY HOSTED by the promoters who organize the event, my impression might be that it's not worth my time & money.

So...knowing that at least one of these suspended individuals is devious enough to try to sneak back in under a new alias & the fact that Velheru's FIRST post was negative-jibed just like the majority of that person's posts, I reacted as if it were him, unfortunately (no way to prove it wasn't him). Pissed as hell? Yes. Overreacted? Yes. Justified? I think so. I mean, why else would someone's first post be a negative one. Certainly not a good way to introduce yourself...not to us anyway. And certainly not a good idea on ANY other forum without expecting to get some backlash. Sure, maybe not as harsh as what I gave, but backlash nonetheless. Again, going back to my go-to analogy ...you wouldn't go to a new aquaintance's (or friend-of-a-friend's) party/house & start pointing out all the negatives of the party or the accommodations without risking to be thown out on your ass by the host, right?

Velheru, if you are indeed new to this forum, I sincerely apologize for "going off" on you as harshly as I did...although, the message behind what I was saying still holds true in principle.

Now this leads me to my second point for clarification...we are most certainly open to criticism!! HOWEVER! Respect is EARNED!! Not blindly given!! So, for those of you who we know & respect both on this forum & outside because of your continued support of us, the fest & also the scene...and who we've also become friends with over the years...ie. Rob K, Rachel, John B, Annie/Rick, Laura, Dan, Jose, Amber, Rich, Will, booB, Jodi, Vman...just off the top of my head, but many others...we respect your opinion & your suggestions because you have proven to us that your intentions for improving the fest & the scene are truly altruistic & not for personal glory by way of publically announcing your "better" ideas or the opportunity to brag that you know more (or whatever the self-glorifying reason) like some others around here.

And it's also very interesting that those of you who truly care about us & the fest have a much better tact of how to get your point across when making a criticism, which definitely helps you to get heard & your suggestions taken to heart. The cunt method on the other hand....eh, not so much.

So I hope this helps clarify a bit where all this anger & aggrivation came from on our part.



And for the record...regarding the Snappy Weiner crew (Rich, Tony, Amber, etc)...you guys really need to go re-read my post. I completely made all those criticisms up (which is why I said I found no fault with them...obviously I was unclear, sorry) only to prove my point & make some parallel comparisons so you would know where I was coming from with my rant. I did NOT mean any of them about your party, but quite the opposite...everything about your party rocked & I had a great time without ANY complaints!! Although, I'm not a picky bitch like some. It's all about having a good time, not about trying to nit-pick what could make it better.

I really hope you guys didn't think that any of my previous rant was directed at you. I apologize if it came out that way.

 

[EyeballKid]

There have recently been suspensions issued to a couple of the negative/know-it-all/one-up posters who have frequented this board. This was done because it just became too excessive!! We're trying to gain interest for the fest, not give new people (lurkers) an impression that it sucks in any way if they're on the fence about attending. Sorry, but this is completely business & marketing based...and although it would be nice for it not to be, it's quite necessary if we hope to keep building the fest to be bigger & better.

As someone who truly enjoyed my stay at Powerfest, and who appreciates the hard work everyone put into it, this is a very interesting tactic. You say it right there: "we don't anyone to see something negative and then feel like they shouldn't come to the fest" AKA "let's all be positive so that we can get more attendance next year, negative opinions should be whispered and not spoken." Sounds a little totalitarian to me.

I truly mean no offense, as I respect what you guys did for the fest this year and what you do for metal in the Chicago scene (which sorely needs the boost). I'm just making an honest observation, not justifying the ignorant bitching and moaning. I'd probably do the same in your shoes, but I gotta say it. :Spin:

Regardless, thanks for the hard work and I hope next year is equally as cool! And, you know, has Iced Earth again. Though I'd settle for Symphony X or Fates Warning. Hah.

 

[prncsslime]

As someone who truly enjoyed my stay at Powerfest, and who appreciates the hard work everyone put into it, this is a very interesting tactic. You say it right there: "we don't anyone to see something negative and then feel like they shouldn't come to the fest" AKA "let's all be positive so that we can get more attendance next year, negative opinions should be whispered and not spoken." Sounds a little totalitarian to me.

I think maybe everyone who wonders why Rob and Chris "go off" the way they do, should click on "Diabolik" and read some of the posts he has written. Jasonic, and others, weren't that bad, but from personal experience, all Diabolik did was bring negativity to every single thing someone posted here. I mean c'mon, I tell Rob and Chris not to worry about what people are saying about the fest, and this guy writes back that I have "brown on my nose" from all of my a$$ kissing, and that I have never contributed anything to the board BUT that. He also brought my children into it and told me that I should save my money so they can get an education, when all I said was I took them to see Symphony X.
For all the new people on here, I would think that that kind of "vomit of the mouth" would be a turn off. I stopped posting here for a LONG time because all I ever got was personal attacks, and negativity.
I think it's great that people want to give constructive criticism, but when it goes too far, and literally scares people from posting, I agree that something has to give.
There's a difference between criticism and negativity....I think we can all see it. I also don't think that Rob or Chris should be chastised for getting fed up with some of the posts that have been posted here. The past proves how tolerant they have been, and now that they are hypothetically "cracking the whip" it should not be surprising.
I applaud Rob for apologizing to someone he thought might have been a nay-sayer under a different name. It shows a lot of character that he even explains himself as to why he DID go off, but it is understandable.
I'm just glad that I can feel free to AGREE with someone now without getting a negative comment about how much a$$ kissing I'm doing.
'Nuff said.....just my two cents.....

 

[Punkin877]

I think maybe everyone who wonders why Rob and Chris "go off" the way they do, should click on "Diabolik" and read some of the posts he has written. Jasonic wasn't that bad, but from personal experience, all Diabolik did was bring negativity to every single thing someone posted here. I mean c'mon, I tell Rob and Chris not to worry about what people are saying about the fest, and this guy writes back that I have "brown on my nose" from all of my a$$ kissing, and that I have never contributed anything to the board BUT that. He also brought my children into it and told me that I should save my money so they can get an education, when all I said was I took them to see Symphony X.
For all the new people on here, I would think that that kind of "vomit of the mouth" would be a turn off. I stopped posting here for a LONG time because all I ever got was personal attacks, and negativity.
I think it's great that people want to give constructive criticism, but when it goes too far, and literally scares people from posting, I agree that something has to give.
There's a difference between criticism and negativity....I think we can all see it. I also don't think that Rob or Chris should be chastised for getting fed up with some of the posts that have been posted here. The past proves how tolerant they have been, and now that they are hypothetically "cracking the whip" it should not be surprising.
I applaud Rob for apologizing to someone he thought might have been a nay-sayer under a different name. It shows a lot of character that he even explains himself as to why he DID go off, but it is understandable.
I'm just glad that I can feel free to AGREE with someone now without getting a negative comment about how much a$$ kissing I'm doing.
'Nuff said.....just my two cents.....

Ass kisser. Love ya girl!

 

[prncsslime]

Ass kisser. Love ya girl!

Hahahahaha!!!!!

 

[Punkin877]

As someone who truly enjoyed my stay at Powerfest, and who appreciates the hard work everyone put into it, this is a very interesting tactic. You say it right there: "we don't anyone to see something negative and then feel like they shouldn't come to the fest" AKA "let's all be positive so that we can get more attendance next year, negative opinions should be whispered and not spoken." Sounds a little totalitarian to me.

I truly mean no offense, as I respect what you guys did for the fest this year and what you do for metal in the Chicago scene (which sorely needs the boost). I'm just making an honest observation, not justifying the ignorant bitching and moaning. I'd probably do the same in your shoes, but I gotta say it. :Spin:

Regardless, thanks for the hard work and I hope next year is equally as cool! And, you know, has Iced Earth again. Though I'd settle for Symphony X or Fates Warning. Hah.

I can understand what you're saying, but it's not like Chris and Rob are MAKING you come and post on the forum. That is your choice post. All they are saying is that if you CHOOSE to post on the board, then respect their wishes to not post negative comments on the forum but rather PM or email them instead. I don't really see that as being totalitarian. After all, they are the ones that opened the board. Shouldn't they have that right to not have to see negative comments on their own board? Of course, they could always just do what other forum moderators do and just delete the posts, but then that just wasted the poster's time and their time. I think it's just easier and more fair for them to say please don't post negative comments.

The fact is that bad publicity for a fest, especially one that is up and coming, can have a negative impact on people's perceptions of a fest. Also, it is very fair, if not expected, to not have negative publicity on the actual official fest's board.

Look at it like this: If a company gets bad press (article, interview..etc.)......do you think the owners of that company would get a copy of that article or interview and post it on their Website?? Absolutely not. Why? Because that would call attention to that bad press and it is fact that negative press is rememberd far more than good press.

Keeping negative comments on their own board is equivalent to that and their request to not have it is justified.

 

[Srontgorrth]

I can understand what you're saying, but it's not like Chris and Rob are MAKING you come and post on the forum. That is your choice post. All they are saying is that if you CHOOSE to post on the board, then respect their wishes to not post negative comments on the forum but rather PM or email them instead. I don't really see that as being totalitarian. After all, they are the ones that opened the board. Shouldn't they have that right to not have to see negative comments on their own board? Of course, they could always just do what other forum moderators do and just delete the posts, but then that just wasted the poster's time and their time. I think it's just easier and more fair for them to say please don't post negative comments.

The fact is that bad publicity for a fest, especially one that is up and coming, can have a negative impact on people's perceptions of a fest. Also, it is very fair, if not expected, to not have negative publicity on the actual official fest's board.

Look at it like this: If a company gets bad press (article, interview..etc.)......do you think the owners of that company would get a copy of that article or interview and post it on their Website?? Absolutely not. Why? Because that would call attention to that bad press and it is fact that negative press is rememberd far more than good press.

Keeping negative comments on their own board is equivalent to that and their request to not have it is justified.

But take for example on any band forum, there's always going to be constructive, as well as stupid and retarded, criticism, which of course the former should be fair to discuss. Take for example the two singles from the new Opeth album Watershed, everyone on the board should have their right to put out their view on the songs. Or if someone on the Testament forum posted that they disliked a certain song off of The Formation of Damnation album, people of course will also post their opinion on it as well, and I think that is completely fair, the band shouldn't go to the forum and delete every single negative post, or restrict the negative discussion of any songs, there's no reason to dictate all of that, until it comes to the point where people just saying something sucks, or is stupid etc. I know some boards on this forum do have members of the bands posting on the respective bands board, as well as others, such as Novembers Doom, Opeth, Katatonia, James Murphy, Kayo Dot, Subterranean Masquerade and so on, and of course they don't rule their boards like kings, but obviously people respect whatever the member of one of the bands posts, but of course most of those members will probably reply thoughtfully to constructive criticism as well.

Now I of course think CRJ did a fantastic job at the fest this year, and most people here are obviously in agreement, but however why not discuss the negative aspects and see how they can be fixed so Powerefest will be even better the next?

 

[EyeballKid]

I agree with pretty much everything everyone else has said here.

I wasn't having a go at CRJ, I was just making an observation and perhaps raising the question of what is right or wrong. I'm like Battlestar Galactica.

Some people are stupid, and should be called out for it. But they can still voice their opinions, IMO, negative or positive.

 

[Will Bozarth]

weeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Velheru]

GateXII, I think it was great that you clarified yourself and I appreciate it. I didn't mean to disrespect you or the other Powerfest organizers. Don't worry about going off on me, im hard to offend. 10 years ago I might have gotten mad and fired off some tirade, but I'm too old for that shit now lol, I find it's best to just overlook it, people have bad days and say stupid stuff (especially me) so I don't hold it against anyone. I think the fest was great and you guys did a good job. I think what got me was the fact that the Pearl Room has great potential, and it seems to me like whoever is running it just isn't using to its fullest, and that bugs the hell out of me. But they must be doing somethings right cause they do get good shows (like the Powerfest) there! Sorry for anyone I offended, it wasn't intentional, I will try to be more tactful with any negative comments (or just send them directly to those that need to hear them) in the future.

 

[The Invisible Guest]

I must have missed the comments that caused the big stir .... nothing I've read since Powerfest ended seemed too bad, and most every review had a good share of positives included as well.

All in all I think most people conveyed that they had a real good time at Chicago Powerfest.

Britt

 

[KaptainKrude]

I like pizza.

 

[rms]

So bob and jason got banned eh?

 

[booB]

All they are saying is that if you CHOOSE to post on the board, then respect their wishes to not post negative comments on the forum but rather PM or email them instead. I don't really see that as being totalitarian. After all, they are the ones that opened the board. Shouldn't they have that right to not have to see negative comments on their own board? Of course, they could always just do what other forum moderators do and just delete the posts, but then that just wasted the poster's time and their time. I think it's just easier and more fair for them to say please don't post negative comments.

Yeah, this.

Any other OFFICIAL band or fest forum, which is maintained and paid for by the band or fest owners, will institute the same rules as CRJ about negative posts and systematically delete any offending posts. This is not a neutral message board, where anything goes. In my estimation, the very reason that Chris and Rob get so worked up over this issue is because they WANT to be as lenient as possible regarding constructive criticism (hence, their plea for people to keep the negatives to a minimum as a favor to them). Unfortunately, many people take this comparative leniency for granted, and post whatever the hell they want, and unfortunately, that's when action needs to be taken.

 

[GateXII]

You say it right there: "we don't anyone to see something negative and then feel like they shouldn't come to the fest" AKA "let's all be positive so that we can get more attendance next year, negative opinions should be whispered and not spoken." Sounds a little totalitarian to me.

Uhhh...where the hell did I say that?! Those aren't my words! They're yours! Did you even read what I posted...or just skimmed it & made your own conclusions?!

Basically, I said that negative comments & criticisms ARE welcome...just as long as the person giving it has earned respect by contributing to this forum/fest in other ways other than just laundry lists of what sucks & what should be done to improve whatever. Just popping in once in a while with negative comments is also not cool...plain & simple...and it certainly doesn't show respect. This forum is not meant to be a suggestion box, but rather a community...at least that's what we're trying to establish anyway.

Also, those who offered their negative comments in the past, wouldn't just say it once, but would CONSTANTLY bring up the same shit OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.....and that's what I meant by "all" the negative comments & being "too excessive".

And I already explained myself as to why I went off earlier on Velheru, so I won't explain it again.

Just curious...do you never make mistakes? Just asking.

 

[GateXII]

GateXII, I think it was great that you clarified yourself and I appreciate it. I didn't mean to disrespect you or the other Powerfest organizers. Don't worry about going off on me, im hard to offend. 10 years ago I might have gotten mad and fired off some tirade, but I'm too old for that shit now lol, I find it's best to just overlook it, people have bad days and say stupid stuff (especially me) so I don't hold it against anyone. I think the fest was great and you guys did a good job. I think what got me was the fact that the Pearl Room has great potential, and it seems to me like whoever is running it just isn't using to its fullest, and that bugs the hell out of me. But they must be doing somethings right cause they do get good shows (like the Powerfest) there! Sorry for anyone I offended, it wasn't intentional, I will try to be more tactful with any negative comments (or just send them directly to those that need to hear them) in the future.

Thanks...and really, sorry for the confusion & misunderstanding.

 

[EyeballKid]

Uhhh...where the hell did I say that?! Those aren't my words! They're yours! Did you even read what I posted...or just skimmed it & made your own conclusions?!

Basically, I said that negative comments & criticisms ARE welcome...just as long as the person giving it has earned respect by contributing to this forum/fest in other ways other than just laundry lists of what sucks & what should be done to improve whatever. Just popping in once in a while with negative comments is also not cool...plain & simple...and it certainly doesn't show respect. This forum is not meant to be a suggestion box, but rather a community...at least that's what we're trying to establish anyway.

Also, those who offered their negative comments in the past, wouldn't just say it once, but would CONSTANTLY bring up the same shit OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.....and that's what I meant by "all" the negative comments & being "too excessive".

And I already explained myself as to why I went off earlier on Velheru, so I won't explain it again.

Just curious...do you never make mistakes? Just asking.

Yes, clearly I made a mistake by putting those words in quotation marks when they were truly more of a message derived from your exact statement.

I'm not disagreeing that these people should stop jacking off at the mouth with every bitch and gripe, I find it quite annoying. But the idea that every poster who voices a negative opinion should have an established contribution to the "community" of the Powerfest message board is a little much to ask, IMO. An online board is not a group of flesh-and-blood friends who have years of respect for each other, etc., no matter what way you swing it. I think the attitude that you shouldn't just "pop in" directly conflicts with the welcoming air you portray. If someone wants to jump on, say something quickly, and leave, they should be welcomed to do so. At the end of the day, they were still a presence at Powerfest (online or in-person) and will still have the Fest in their minds (and thus your marketing is successful).

All this said, I agree 100% that they shouldn't just pop up to say negative things. And I am in no way asking you to explain yourself, I was just making an observation. I think you are valid in your response to Velheru, though he has apologized and seems like a pretty amicable dude (provided he is, in fact, a guy).

I wasn't trying to call you out on anything, I was simply dropping by with an opinion. I do that. I pop in and out. With negatives and positives. And I will be anxiously awaiting Powerfest '09! Didn't mean to stir up the pot anymore.

 

[UsefulIdiot127]

Uhhh...where the hell did I say that?! Those aren't my words! They're yours! Did you even read what I posted...or just skimmed it & made your own conclusions?!

Basically, I said that negative comments & criticisms ARE welcome...just as long as the person giving it has earned respect by contributing to this forum/fest in other ways other than just laundry lists of what sucks & what should be done to improve whatever. Just popping in once in a while with negative comments is also not cool...plain & simple...and it certainly doesn't show respect. This forum is not meant to be a suggestion box, but rather a community...at least that's what we're trying to establish anyway.

Also, those who offered their negative comments in the past, wouldn't just say it once, but would CONSTANTLY bring up the same shit OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.....and that's what I meant by "all" the negative comments & being "too excessive".

And I already explained myself as to why I went off earlier on Velheru, so I won't explain it again.

Just curious...do you never make mistakes? Just asking.

I see what you are saying but there is more to the world than the Internet. Lets say I get home from Powerfest, and search online to see if there is anyway I can talk to the organizers because I have a few complaints.

I don't know anyone on the forum but I post my complaints to see what the reaction is. If the organizers are nice to me, I'm going to be a hell of a lot more help with the word of mouth advertising than if the organizers bitch me out for having negative feedback without ever posting on the forum before.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the internet is NOT serious business, its the internet.

I've also said this once and I'll say it again, powerfest owned and i'm forever grateful for the oppurtunity to see the show I did thanks to you.

 

[eaeolian]

But take for example on any band forum, there's always going to be constructive, as well as stupid and retarded, criticism, which of course the former should be fair to discuss.

Wow, so you posted on the Iced Earth forum?

Seriously, I understand Rob's point. While discussion is all well and good, the negativity has got out of hand here at times....

 

[DRFS Rich]

I like pizza.

With Chicken. And Garlic.

- R