Controversial opinions on metal

[Oblivious Maximus]

I'm going to be that guy and bring up Maiden again but I was listening to Dance of Death yesterday and I'm of the opinion that it's a flawless album. From "Wildest Dreams" to "Journeyman" I don't think theres a bad track in the bunch. Songs like the title track, "Montségur", "Paschendale" (this one especially), "Face in the Sand" which is just goddamn epic and "Age of Innocence" easially rank up there with the best of their 80's work.

 

[Dak]

Paschendale is a really great song, but I never got into the rest of the album.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Their second worst album, and since Virtual XI is better than almost nothing, it may as well be their worst. Age of Innocence is the only good song, but of course, they try something a little different and you get the metal purist retards complaining about "rapping".

 

[matt schrauben]

I'm going to be that guy and bring up Maiden again but I was listening to Dance of Death yesterday and I'm of the opinion that it's a flawless album. From "Wildest Dreams" to "Journeyman" I don't think theres a bad track in the bunch. Songs like the title track, "Montségur", "Paschendale" (this one especially), "Face in the Sand" which is just goddamn epic and "Age of Innocence" easially rank up there with the best of their 80's work.

I agree 100 percent. When I got that album years back, it's all I listened to for over a month. I think maiden is still delivering amazing quality albums.

 

[Lateralus14]

I didn't know Cannibal Corpse albums sounded different from one another. Is that controversial?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

It's more like whether or not a given CC has a strong batch of songs or not. Corpse is always Corpse.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I didn't know Cannibal Corpse albums sounded different from one another. Is that controversial?

I don't see how it can be controversial to admit former ignorance.

 

[Vera Gemini]

I can't stand thrash metal, it's just noise.

Iron Maiden are a good band, but they're massively overrated. There are several other NWOBHM bands that were way more deserving of the attention.

Ozzy's vocals are mediocre at best(although they do have a certain charm) and if Ozzy had never joined Sabbath in the first place it wouldn't have been much of a loss. It's all about Tony Iommi anyway!

I can't take black metal seriously at all. Though I do hold a bit of nostalgia towards it I can't deny that it's very immature and trying all too hard to shock, whilst being laughable in doing so.

I absolutely love KISS, and I'm not the slightest bit ashamed of it!

 

[KafkaX]

You think black metal is immature and tries too hard, yet you like Kiss. One of the most over-rated, immature and laughable acts in music history...

 

[Vera Gemini]

But KISS never took themselves seriously and always had fun with what they did. You can't compare a band like KISS with BM, it makes no sense!

Black metal tries too hard to be scary and shocking. Just look at all the crimes that happened because were people taking it too seriously. Take Varg for example, he was a teenager when he started burning churches. Do you really think he did that sort of stuff because of some strong, deep belief system? No, he was a silly kid who was trying to impress his friends.

Just look at the all BM bands trying to be more extreme and evil than the last. It's pathetic.

Black metallers need to get over themselves and not take things so seriously all the time. Immortal have the right attitude.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Complain about black metal for being too image-centric by taking it too seriously and not simply listening to the music for its own sake. Makes sense to me.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I think once you start burning churches down and murdering people you've skedaddled on past "silly kid impressing his friends" and landed right on into "kind of a scary person". That's one of the appeals of BM, to me. It's really where the misanthropes and people with fucked up heads reside and get their catharsis.

There's a documentary out there called One Man Metal that interviews Xasthur, Leviathan, and Striborg, and in each case it's hard to shake the feeling that if it weren't for their ability to make music they'd all probably be dead by now. They definitely take it ULTRA serious, and I find it kinda mesmerizing to listen in a sort of "peek into the bubble" sense. It doesn't feel like it's speaking to me, but damned if I'm not taken in by the experience.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

There's a documentary out there called One Man Metal that interviews Xasthur, Leviathan, and Striborg, and in each case it's hard to shake the feeling that if it weren't for their ability to make music they'd all probably be dead by now.

Same applies to Miles Davis and probably countless non-metal artists.

 

[Vera Gemini]

HamburgerBoy: I actually used to be a massive fan of black metal when I was a teenager, but after a while it became a bit much. I still listen to it sometimes, but it doesn't have the same impact as it did when I was younger. I'm not denying that black metal is good, done right it can be fantastic. It's just that nowadays the whole kvlt, evil thing is a bit tiresome.

SomeGuyDude: I didn't mean that literally when I said he was a silly little kid, I was talking about his immature attitude, not the acts themselves. He was fucked up before hand, without a doubt but a lot of it was an acceptance thing with the crimes.

Yes, I'm aware of DSBM and yes that's a great example of the sort of bands I can take seriously. There's nothing to laugh at there. same goes for bands like Forest Silence who rely on atmosphere and lyrics about dark forests and winter etc, rather than screeching about Satan. If more BM was like that I'd listen to it more often.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't think the "whole kvlt, evil thing" has ever been as proportionately minor in the past in black metal as it is now today. What artists are you even talking about? You bring up a guy that committed crimes two decades ago even though his lyrics were never dedicated to "screeching about Satan". I'm pretty sure that those that do have a Satanic focus generally don't do so for the purpose of the listener taking them completely literally in Satanic worship.

 

[Vera Gemini]

I never said it's gotten any worse. I'm just saying that as a genre it stands out as trying to be as extreme as possible.

I'm talking about bands such as Mayhem that still have the same mindset as when they were teens. They're like the Manowar of BM XD

Naming bands is irrelevant anyway, just look at the whole scene and it's fans. A lot of them are so serious and moody.

I was using Varg as an example as he's the most notorious, I wasn't referring to his lyrical content as it's irrelevant when we're talking about crimes and mentally unstable people.

I'm not saying all of the bands that sing about Satan actually believe what in what they're saying, I'm saying that they still can't be taken seriously.

I really don't see what the big deal is. I haven't said BM is shit(even if I did it would still be my opinion anyway and not everyone has the same taste) I just said it gets a bit silly at times.

If you want to take it seriously, great! But I don't, I've grown out of that mindset.

Black metal is not even really worth defending. In 20 years it won't be remembered all that much really and if it is, it will be because of it's shock value. It's good music, yes but that is all. It's not ground breaking by any stretch.

 

[KafkaX]

So acts like Shining and Lifelover arent silly and can be taken seriously with their depressive suicidal image but Gorgoroth, Sargeist etc. are silly and cannot be taken seriously because their image is trying too hard to be "evil"?...

I understand what you are saying about the fans being "too moody and serious", and I often find myself at Black Metal shows pissed off by the crowd as opposed to having a feeling of comradery.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You said "nowadays the whole kvlt, evil thing is a bit tiresome"; I interpreted that to mean that it is a larger component of black metal today than yesterday, but if it was simply a statement that your enjoyment of such themes has waned over the years, then ok. Still doesn't change the fact that the a significant number of black metal artists today have nothing to do with that. And you're still ultimately judging the sub-genre on the basis of things tangential to the music itself. That you allow black metal fans harm your perception of black metal music only shows that further (although even there, the genre has found itself increasingly the darling of inoffensive hipsters vs the ANUS types that dominated its fandom two decades ago).

I really don't understand why you complain about not being able to take black metal seriously when you've stated that you like it when artists don't take themselves seriously. The solution is simple: don't take those guys seriously no matter how the create their image.

And fwiw I can't stand the overwhelming majority of black metal, although Mayhem is a major exception for me. I don't see how you can listen to Deathcrush and Chimera and think they had the same mindset in the writing and recording of both albums. They were a vital component of the genre's development, managed to consistently write albums that not only stood out relative to their own material but the genre as a whole (based on my admittedly limited knowledge of black metal), all the while maintaining a fairly high degree of consistency. I don't give the slightest shit about Euronymous' zine or Varg's crimes or Dead's suicide; Mayhem wrote good music.

 

[Vera Gemini]

I'm not saying DSBM bands should be taken completely seriously either! One is mildly amusing and almost quaint and the other is dark and a outlandish in a morbid way. It's like comparing a clown to a mime. One is really in your face and attention getting and the other is less so, but still manages to be a little over the top.

While BM fans(I'm referring to the extreme ones) are annoying, they are bloody hilarious when they get all riled up about their music. So they have their uses haha

 

[Vera Gemini]

Yes I meant that since my music taste has evolved and my opinions have changed. Well the thing is that I don't look for new black metal bands to listen to, so I haven't the foggiest about any changes in the scene(I can't imagine there's a huge amount) and I'm not interested as you will have guessed.

I think you're confusing me saying I find it silly with me saying it's shit. Why is such a problem that my mindset has changed? I'm so glad it did! I found much better music with more talent and diversity that I might not have come across if I stuck with BM as stubbornly as I once did.

I'm not complaining about it. I don't care enough about it to really complain, I was just making a point.

I only ever listened to the LP's and bootlegs, so I never listened to Chimera. I couldn't care less how they've evolved musically as the point I was getting at was the fact that, as people they haven't changed. They think they're the most evil band ever etc and it's hilarious. Plus they're awful live, so they have no cause to be so arrogant.