Controversial opinions on metal

So you believe that songs should be treated like physical property and handed down from generation to generation as heirlooms?

If you're talking legally, your point about public broadcast is objectively false. There are many laws dictating how music can be played in public, to what size of an audience, the royalties required to be paid, etc. Playing Kidz Bop 32 at your kid's birthday party probably won't risk a law suit, but it would be illegal to play copyrighted music in public to a large group.
 
TechnicalBarbarity said:
should they go next door and pay them money since the music they heard doesn't "belong" to them?
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No, and no one is advocating for them to do so.

HamburgerBoy said:
So you believe that songs should be treated like physical property and handed down from generation to generation as heirlooms?

If you're talking legally, your point about public broadcast is objectively false. There are many laws dictating how music can be played in public, to what size of an audience, the royalties required to be paid, etc. Playing Kidz Bop 32 at your kid's birthday party probably won't risk a law suit, but it would be illegal to play copyrighted music in public to a large group.
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It doesn't matter what I believe. We are talking about theft and ownership, which is something defined by the law and not my personal opinions.
 
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You realize that not all countries treat intellectual property equally, right? Law doesn't define ethics, even though good government in theory strives to make its laws ethical.
 
Yes, I'm aware. What country do you live in? I have a feeling that it's a country with strong laws about intellectual property ownership. I bet that the vast majority of people posting here are in the same situation.

Also, it's definitely unethical to steal copies of something made through the work of others that is being sold because you don't want to pay for it but you want to have it, especially something that you don't need to survive.
 
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Elric of Melniboné said:
Yes, I'm aware. What country do you live in? I have a feeling that it's a country with strong laws about intellectual property ownership. I bet that the vast majority of people posting here are in the same situation.

Also, it's definitely unethical to steal copies of something made through the work of others that is being sold because you don't want to pay for it but you want to have it, especially something that you don't need to survive.
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afaik Canada doesn't even care about personal IP infringement (e.g. individuals pirating games and music for personal use), for one example. You were talking earlier about downloading "rare" music as still being ethically challenging, which I think is questionable because no one would prosecute an infringement there unless a copyright holder wanted to press charges, and since OOP music by definition can't make money for the artist, there would seemingly be no potential financial loss to the artist.
 
My statement is that you're committing an act of theft. If you can't prove me wrong, the conversation is over.

Also, my advice is to look up the recent anti-piracy laws in Canada. I believe there was a guy fined over $400 million for music piracy. It was a big story in the last few years.
 
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I used to be a downloader when I had no income then I looked down on people who downloaded once I started buying. I don't think it makes much difference, if you aren't going to buy it, you weren't going to in the first place. I almost always at least sample before I purchase and it's saved me from some real fucking garbage purchases.

But yeah, people that only download were never going to purchase it and support the person making it sooooo I really can't feel like they're stealing. Hell I feel like those people are cheating themselves of the experience of owning and experiencing music the way I feel is proper than the person they're "stealing" from.
 
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Also, fining someone 400 million dollars is just scare tactic stupidity, just like it's always been. He will never pay .001% of that.
 
Elric of Melniboné said:
My statement is that you're committing an act of theft. If you can't prove me wrong, the conversation is over.
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Internally Deformed said:
The concept of theft doesn't really fully apply to downloading in my view, because you're not actually depriving anyone of something. If I stole $10 from your wallet, that sucks for you because you're now down $10. In the case of music, if I download your album all I'm depriving you of is the potential to sell to me - you don't actually lose anything unless I would have bought your album were downloading not a possibility.
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Elric of Melniboné said:
My statement is that you're committing an act of theft. If you can't prove me wrong, the conversation is over.

Also, my advice is to look up the recent anti-piracy laws in Canada. I believe there was a guy fined over $400 million for music piracy. It was a big story in the last few years.
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Do you consider it theft when music out of copyright is downloaded? If not, would you consider it theft if laws retroactively applied copyright to every audio recording ever made, and people then downloaded the same recordings?

And as stated above, bootlegging is a totally different matter.
 
HamburgerBoy said:
Do you consider it theft when music out of copyright is downloaded? If not, would you consider it theft if laws retroactively applied copyright to every audio recording ever made, and people then downloaded the same recordings?

And as stated above, bootlegging is a totally different matter.
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How many times do I have to tell you that my opinion is not what defines theft, but the outlines of the law? I don't understand why you're unable to understand this.

If someone fails to secure intellectual property under a copyright, it's not owned by anyone so it can't be stolen.

I'm not sure what your hypothetical is supposed to bring to the discussion.
 
Elric of Melniboné said:
How many times do I have to tell you that my opinion is not what defines theft, but the outlines of the law? I don't understand why you're unable to understand this.
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We're not arguing that you can' be convicted for "stealing" music through piracy.

To state this as simply as possible: it's impossible to steal something if the person still has the thing you steal after you steal it.
 
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