Controversial opinions on metal

[S<issors]

Dodens, given that nobody except Mort (EDIT: And apparently this guy above me) likes them, I understand why Mort would feel the need to defend them.

Although yeah, I'm confused by the affection : /

 

[Satanstoenail]

The issue I have with that logic is that most of the bands people call post-rock nowadays really are not even post-rock.

Post-rock during the formative years of its existence was simply non-rock music played with rock instruments. This meant bands like Bark Psychosis, Slint, Talk Talk, etc.

Bands like Explosions in the Sky, iLiKETRAiNS, & Sigur Ros really don't create music that is anything removed from rock. These 'post-metal' bands are taking elements of bands who don't even really play post-rock and are getting called for being a heavier form of something that isn't what it really is to begin with.

Post-metal bands play atmospheric sludge 9/10 times - therefore there is no need to call them by anything else.

I've never heard of those 'real' post-rock bands you mentioned, so it's probable that I'm the less informed here. When I think of post-rock I think of Mogwai first & foremost. Isis to me are just a heavier and more metal version of them, so the post-metal tag makes perfect sense to me.

 

[The Ozzman]

I just consider Pelican instrumental rock/metal and Isis could be slow sludge I guess. I don't really consider ITAOT to be sludge

 

[waif]

Steve Harris is a major prog fan. He does not write prog metal. Even A Matter of Life and Death isn't nearly as prog as "Metropolis Pt. 1" or "In the Presence of Enemies". If a couple of vaguely progressive songs per album make you prog metal, then Night of the Stormrider, Stained Class, Master of Puppets, and In the Nightside Eclipse are prog metal and the name of the genre is cheapened into meaninglessness.

If Dream Theater aren't prog enough to be prog metal, then Maiden and Queensryche sure aren't, and Awaken the Guardian is pretty much all you have left. Hell, DT are really more prog than Rush (and yes, Rush, a standard bearer of '70s prog rock, have written a lot of really poppy songs in their history, they're certainly no Spiral Architect). This sort of "higher brow than thou" thinking tends to create a vicious cycle that ends in some sort of rock and roll lovechild of Frank Zappa and Anton Webern. Ultimately you have to define a baseline standard of "prog" and stick to it.

With dream theater I was joking. I was sorta hoping you'd catch that so you could see how absurd your argument about Queensryche was.
Secondly, I wasn't saying that Maiden were a prog band, but your argument - that they're not prog because they're not as progressive as Dream Theater - has some gaping logical flaws. Can you spot them?
As far as cheapening the name of the genre, I'd say that's already been done. Prog/power, for one, has become a meaningless term because half the bands that claim to be prog/power are just long-winded power metal bands with 2 extra riffs and a time change per song.

Mort, shut your fucking mouth already. Every time somebody mentioned Pain Of Salvation you have to go into an insane lesbian rage when in reality nobody gives a fuck but you. It's getting really god damn annoying to the point that it's inspired me to let you know during my course of not really posting a whole lot. You always get your toe socks in a bunch over this fucking gay band and nobody else fucking cares. You're the one with gay tastes, now accept that and keep it in the closet.

This. Nothing against Pain of Salvation, but seriously.

 

[The Ozzman]

I think because of how much Mort fellates that band, I am not going to buy any Pain of Salvation just to spite him

 

[Mort Divine]

I've not mentioned them in ages people, come on.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

To all of you who don't like Dream Theater... I'd have plenty of counterarguments to crush your faulty statements of error, but I guess you can't really argue about taste... And therefore...

[/intelligent discussion]

You people are fucking gay.
That's the treatment I get for openly disliking Slayer anyway.

As for Pain of Salvation... I've only heard Remedy Lane. It's not bad, but... I'd Dream Theater album except Falling Into Infinity or Train of Thought over it any day... Hell, I'd take any Pagan's Mind album I've ever heard over it.

EDIT: although devin townsend owns both of them.

Yes.

 

[Woolie Wool]

With dream theater I was joking. I was sorta hoping you'd catch that so you could see how absurd your argument about Queensryche was.
Secondly, I wasn't saying that Maiden were a prog band, but your argument - that they're not prog because they're not as progressive as Dream Theater - has some gaping logical flaws. Can you spot them?
As far as cheapening the name of the genre, I'd say that's already been done. Prog/power, for one, has become a meaningless term because half the bands that claim to be prog/power are just long-winded power metal bands with 2 extra riffs and a time change per song.

Well, yeah, I think it really starts to get fuzzy with prog/power (Lost Horizon is commonly called prog/power, I hear modern-produced speed metal with long song lengths and a vocalist who sounds like Images-era James LaBrie). I'd say Pagan's Mind fall comfortably onto the prog side.

The problem isn't that Queensryche is not as prog as Dream Theater, it's that they are not any more progressive than bands that played prog-tinged songs but are not called prog metal, like Iron Maiden, Metallica, or Iced Earth. They have intelligent lyrics and the occasional long song, but so do many other bands that nobody calls prog metal.

The edges of genres are a mess, really.

 

[waif]

[/intelligent discussion]

You people are fucking gay.
That's the treatment I get for openly disliking Slayer anyway.

tbh I can understand you disliking slayer.

I mean, you're gay. You can't help it.

Well, yeah, I think it really starts to get fuzzy with prog/power (Lost Horizon is commonly called prog/power, I hear modern-produced speed metal with long song lengths and a vocalist who sounds like Images-era James LaBrie). I'd say Pagan's Mind fall comfortably onto the prog side.

The problem isn't that Queensryche is not as prog as Dream Theater, it's that they are not any more progressive than bands that played prog-tinged songs but are not called prog metal, like Iron Maiden, Metallica, or Iced Earth. They have intelligent lyrics and the occasional long song, but so do many other bands that nobody calls prog metal.

The edges of genres are a mess, really.

QR are definitely prog. See, there's more to being progressive than being absurdly long winded and writing shitty pseudo-poetic lyrics.

 

[cannibal corpse]

tbh I can understand you disliking slayer.

I mean, you're gay. You can't help it.

EDIT: But on a serious note, what's wrong with him disliking slayer? He has his own opinions...

 

[waif]

But seriously, I could understand not liking slayer. After all, they haven't released anything good enough to justify it's existence in almost 20 years.

 

[Life Sucks]

QR are prog heavy/trad metal, like DT. Prog isn't a genre.

 

[waif]

Prog metal really refers to progressive trad metal, generally somewhat operatic in nature.

 

[Woolie Wool]

QR are definitely prog. See, there's more to being progressive than being absurdly long winded and writing shitty pseudo-poetic lyrics.

Yes, like manipulation of rhythm and meter to achieve strange effects not seen in normal rock music, a focus on musicianship, usually some sort of keyboards, reduced focus on catchiness, etc., most of which Queensryche doesn't have nearly as much as typical progressive metal bands. The first one of those is the most important, and is exemplified by the nonstop rhythmic mindfuck of John Arch-era Fates Warning.

QR are prog heavy/trad metal, like DT. Prog isn't a genre.

"Progressive metal" is indeed a unique scene that split away from traditional heavy metal. There are plenty of "progressive _____ metal bands" of all types, but "prog metal" by itself generally refers to the prog metal scene that arose in the United States during the mid-to-late '80s and gained popularity during the early '90s.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

But seriously, I could understand not liking slayer. After all, they haven't released anything good enough to justify it's existence in almost 20 years.

Well, can you understand finding Reign in Blood utterly mediocre and worthless? Show No Mercy is the only Slayer album I find even remotely good.

 

[cannibal corpse]

Reign in Blood is far from mediocre...

EDIT: ... in my opinion.

 

[waif]

Well, can you understand finding Reign in Blood utterly mediocre and worthless? Show No Mercy is the only Slayer album I find even remotely good.

I can understand how someone could think that. They'd be wrong, but I see how you could feel that way.

 

[Black Friday]

Well, can you understand finding Reign in Blood utterly mediocre and worthless? Show No Mercy is the only Slayer album I find even remotely good.

Repetitive and samey, but not mediocre.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Well, can you understand finding Reign in Blood utterly mediocre and worthless?

Well I can understand how someone with complete shit taste in metal could think that... yes.

 

[Belligerent]

Not liking Reign in Blood is blasphemy.