Controversial opinions on metal

It falls apart after about the third track, excepting The Loss and Curse of Reverence. It's the most overrated black metal album.

The main difference is the use of keys. They have stopped being an atmospheric device, and have become a lead melodic instrument in several instances. There are some horribly cheesy passages that ruin some songs. The album doesn't evoke much of anything.
 
Emperor are, I think a difficult band to appreciate mainly due to the incredibly busy sound on their albums(IX Equillibrium and Anthems, in particular.) ITNE is more straightforward and almost, should I say, "stupidly epic", hence I think it's their most accessible album. Prometheus caters more to the tech/prog freak.

As, for Anthems, the album flows fairly well actually despite being fractured in places. Of course when you first listen to it, it sounds like a wall of white noise but so are most extreme metal albums.
It's basically a much more technical take on the ITNE sound. It's quite overproduced by black metal standards too. These are the two reasons why there's probably big backlash against it in the underground. Well, that and its overwhelming popularity among many metal fans, of course.
 
Anthems is not that great, and this is coming from the guy who used to be called 'Welkin'. I prefer ITNE. Honestly, if you do not think ITNE is a great album I really honestly think you need to get new ears and you simply cannot be my friend. It is seriously one of the best black metal albums ever created.
 
definitely can't agree with the claim that it falls apart after track 3, i find the second half to be significantly stronger, 'thus spake the nightspirit' is arguably the worst song whilst 'ye entrancemperium' really sags in the middle after a tasty start (mr mayhem wrote that opening riff and it shows)

if anything the problem i have with emperor isn't the symphonic aspect (i like plenty of symphonic bm, and some of my favourite bits of this album are pretty symphonic like sections of 'the loss and curse...' for example) but the technical aspect as DB says. i so so rarely find technical metal i actually like because the standard of songwriting needs to be at just as high a standard for successful integration to occur. i don't find much in the way of flow in 'anthems', the mood seems to jump around with every passage, the only thing consistent is the juxtaposition of this theatrical cheesiness onto a sense that they're taking themselves reeeeeally seriously. always a dreadful, pompous combination, and even if they didn't take themselves seriously i just don't know where the atmosphere would come from. nightgaunt on MA put it best, it's 'all melodrama, no drama' complete with 'mincing warbling syrupy synth'.

i think anthems annoys me more because it does have potential, there are quite a few sections which make me think 'hey, this is cool, but it's about to be spoiled by some awkward transition or ridiculous orchestral/synth flourish - yeah there it is'. some of the things they do are just flabbergasting to me, it's not just that they don't work but that there is no way they could ever work in a million years.

DB is also right about the busy sound - all the best metal makes great use of space, but here everything competes for it (without any attempt at coordination half the time), nothing is allowed to breathe or work its magic, you're just thrown about all over the place, it's like being at a funfair surrounded by merry go rounds all playing their own music. if there's anything that can really get under your skin then it's generally lost under the layers of other crap.
 
Cythraul said:
Anthems is not that great, and this is coming from the guy who used to be called 'Welkin'. I prefer ITNE. Honestly, if you do not think ITNE is a great album I really honestly think you need to get new ears and you simply cannot be my friend. It is seriously one of the best black metal albums ever created.
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.

INTE > AATWD
 
These are all fair assessments of Anthems. What many of you claim as weaknesses of the album I see as strengths. I feel a completeness from the "busy" sound and the production, which many claim is overblown, but it actually envelopes me more into it than most other albums (or maybe I just listen to it louder than most of you). I don't often find symphonic sections cheesy, even in second-rate symphoinc BM, and I find Anthems to be on the less-cheesy end of that spectrum. My favorite kind of symphonic BM is the kind in which the riffs are just as good as the symphonics. I find Anthems, and ITNE to both epitomize what I see as the essence of symphonic BM. As for flow, there are minor inconsistencies in Anthems, but they give greater contrast to the majority of the album, which is perfect.


Cythraul said:
Anthems is not that great, and this is coming from the guy who used to be called 'Welkin'. I prefer ITNE. Honestly, if you do not think ITNE is a great album I really honestly think you need to get new ears and you simply cannot be my friend. It is seriously one of the best black metal albums ever created.
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I believe I said that ITNE is #2 on my list next to Anthems for all-time favorite metal albums.
 
no country for old wainds said:
'hey, this is cool, but it's about to be spoiled by some awkward transition or ridiculous orchestral/synth flourish - yeah there it is'

DB is also right about the busy sound - all the best metal makes great use of space, but here everything competes for it (without any attempt at coordination half the time), nothing is allowed to breathe or work its magic, you're just thrown about all over the place, it's like being at a funfair surrounded by merry go rounds all playing their own music. if there's anything that can really get under your skin then it's generally lost under the layers of other crap.
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I agree on both accounts. There needs to be some sort of breathing room in order for music to really shine. Parts need to seemlessly flow together. With a lot of the old Emperor stuff it's almost like the instruments aren't playing in harmony with each other, & after 20 minutes you forget ever single little note you just heard because of the constant barrage. Not that Emperor's bad, it's just a feeling you get with their old stuff.

It's odd, because Anthems was the album that got me back into black metal, & Nightside was the album which originally made me not care for black metal. I started listening to black metal late, in 2004. Nightside was the first true BM album I got. I listened & listened to it & I hated it. I could not understand how people liked that magorly underprodcued ball of noise with no memorable sections & complete lack of song structure. I then started goiong through & getting a healthy handful of BM albums. Most of them I didn't like much. I was able to get into early Burzum, but somehow I hated most of the other lo-fi BM I listened to, so I pretty much gave up on it, then I figured "what the hell, lets pick up Anthems & give these fuckers another shot". The album really struck a chord with me. I liked how it tightened the sound of Nightside, but had better production. I listened to that album a lot. After that I was able to come back to Nightside & then I started to like it even better than Anthems.


BTW, I fucked up earlier. I got two albums confused. IX Equilibrium is pretty sweet, but Prometheus is pretty shitty.
 
I agree with the statement that Anthems... falls apart after the third track. I won't deny that it displays quite a host of good ideas but it simply doesn't remain consistantly ambitious throughout, at least in my opinion.

In the Nightside Eclipse, however, makes at least second or third on my top ten black metal albums of all time. It was my first black metal album ever and it still hasn't aged a bit for me.
 
no country for old wainds said:
btw im willing to accept that nightside still has plenty of potential to grow on me, i'm not exactly intimately familiar with it
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Well, it's a Emperor album without a single one of the flaws you just now so very excellently used to describe Anthems... with. I agree with everything, by the way. Funny how the question "Which Emperor album do you prefer?" have become one of those question you use to immediately staple new people you meet, like "Do you like Pantera?"

Alright, maybe that's a somewhat harsh comparison.

As for Nightside, it should be listened to in a large room, on vinyl, in my experience. Unlike most other black metal, I find listening to it rejuvenating, rather than taxing. Let's face it, after an evening of intent Darkthrone listening, a trip out on the town isn't the first thing you wanna do.

Excellent, timeless album. A monument to creative, youthful artistic vision.
 
Anthems has never flown for me like Nightside,i dont think it feels as natural as Nightside does. There's something contemplating about Nightside that Anthems lacks completely.
 
Zephyrus said:
ITNE is a more perfect album, more consistent and all-around awesome. But, Anthems has more of those "nirvana" moments that I crave.
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I can see what you're saying. When Anthems first clicked with me I was completely swept away by it and listened to it constantly. I thought it 's some of the most captivating extreme music I've heard. There is really something hypnotic in that swirling symphonic vortex.
 
mattsson said:
Anthems has never flown for me like Nightside,i dont think it feels as natural as Nightside does. There's something contemplating about Nightside that Anthems lacks completely.
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i used to have the same problem until i started listening to the album in a different order. i listen to it in this order

al svartr
loss and curse of reverence
thus spake the night spirit
acclamation of bonds
enscorreled by chaos
ye entrancemperium
with strength i burn
the wanderer

and then i'll usually listen to the loss and curse of reverence and with strength i burn again
 
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