Controversial opinions on metal

[Janga666]

this is one of those superficial reasons, i think. like others have said, if you already enjoy stuff like RiB then getting into BM vocals is likely to come with time, step by step. i for one had under a funeral moon and de mysteriis for over a year before its more extreme elements no longer felt alien to me, and then these albums really really started growing on me.

I do understand what you are saying... but I can also argue that just because a person likes Tom Araya's vocals on Reign in Blood does not mean they are destined to enjoy black metal as long as certain "steps" are followed. I will try out Celtic Frost and Bathory just to see if I can get used to the vocals, but I am assuming it will end up the same as any other excusion into black metal I've taken... being moving from it quickly because of the vocals.

 

[MURAI]

Heartwork is an atrocious album. What are the riffs trying to do? They're not aggressive, they're not catchy, they're just... there.

I disagree. Carcass' Heartwork is not bad and their riffs do have direction.

I prefer death metal over black metal, anyday.

 

[Zephyrus]

I do understand what you are saying... but I can also argue that just because a person likes Tom Araya's vocals on Reign in Blood does not mean they are destined to enjoy black metal as long as certain "steps" are followed. I will try out Celtic Frost and Bathory just to see if I can get used to the vocals, but I am assuming it will end up the same as any other excusion into black metal I've taken... being moving from it quickly because of the vocals.

Make sure to try Celtic Frost first, then move on to Bathory. Get To Mega Therion from the former then Blood Fire Death from the latter.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I have gone from starting with heavy metal to listening more and more to extreme metal until that was the only thing i listened to, to in recent years going more and more back to traditional metal. For a long time i completely forgot about classics like Black Sabbath, Rainbow and Dio, but somewhere along the line i have realized that this kind of metal is what i like the most. Still listen to a fair amount of extreme metal though, although i'm not as enthusiastic about it any longer, i don't go out of my way to plow the scene for new stuff.

 

[Einherjar86]

It's clear the black metal fans dominate the use of proper spelling and grammar, as well as the use of aesthetically pleasing personal literary voices (at least on these forums).

It probably has something to do with being smarter than the rest of you.

Indeed. :Smug:

Black Metal is not just music, it is a way of life. We are the last crusaders of Unholy War upon the degeneracy of Western Christendom, and for that we must be praised not as men, but as Gods.

Except that in the ideal world, where men eschew the ideals of the cult of Christianity and free themselves of moral bondage, and thus dissociate themselves from the nomenclature and terminology of the Church, so that words such as "pagan," "homosexual," and "abortion" are no longer considered "evil," our war is the holiest of all.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I do understand what you are saying... but I can also argue that just because a person likes Tom Araya's vocals on Reign in Blood does not mean they are destined to enjoy black metal as long as certain "steps" are followed. I will try out Celtic Frost and Bathory just to see if I can get used to the vocals, but I am assuming it will end up the same as any other excusion into black metal I've taken... being moving from it quickly because of the vocals.

i'm sure you're right that it's not necessarily the case, but from experience i find it's pretty likely. i think RiB has much more in common with DM primarily, so maybe that would be the next step, and then there's DM which comes close to BM, etcetc. i'm not trying to say you *should* like black metal if you like RiB, i just think anyone who likes metal would more than likely reap many rewards from giving every one of its sub-genres quite a bit of time and effort, giving them the opportunity to get past any initial distractions, expectations, biases etc.

as an aside, i think sometimes people dismiss genres for different reasons; namely misinformed perceptions of what those genres entail. like for example i used to associate hard rock with glamour, flashy solos for their own sake, sleaze, etcetc so i stayed the hell away from it, but exposing myself to more of it made me realise just what a ridiculous generalisation that was (and i think it's one a lot of people share). god, some of that stuff is so dark and epic and visceral and mesmerising, i have no doubt that most metallers would love it if they gave it a chance.

i think with black metal, if some people associated it with the same feelings i associate it with, that'd probably make it far easier for them to get past the vocals, because they'd really want to get past them. i know that's how it was for me once upon a time - when i started reading all these reviews making it sound so fucking cool, i made an extra effort trying to understand how they found all these images and moods in the music, because to me it just sounded like ridiculous noise. in time, i did understand.

i suppose my underlying point is that it's best for the listener to approach all music with as little resistence as possible. if you still can't get anything out of it after a while then fine, no point wasting your life, but if you keep resisting stuff for one reason or another without really trying to get into it then you're gonna miss out on a whole lot, especially if the music in question is a sub-genre of a genre you've already got a lot out of.

 

[CF87]

I don't consider Celtic frost BM or first wave of BM. I just i'd point that out.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Yup. Never understood the attraction myself. I dont mind Dragonlord and some Dimmu... most of it is unlistenable. BUT - I appreciate some people like it, just don't see why it completely dominates this forum... BLack metal fans = shutins?

You're talking about black metal and you mention Dimmu and Dragonlord? Have you ever thought about the possibility that maybe your disassociation is due to ignorance?

[It's clear the black metal fans dominate the use of proper spelling and grammar, as well as the use of aesthetically pleasing personal literary voices (at least on these forums).

It probably has something to do with being smarter than the rest of you.

Awesome, haha

 

[Blind Guardian]

As far as having some actual impact on the liberation from Christianity black metal isn't even a footnote in the debate. That's why black metal (the kind which has that goal) is so silly in a way.

 

[MURAI]

i'm not sure about that, i think it tends to rely heavily on your personality traits in most cases.

anyway every genre of metal has been misinterpreted and misrepresented by idiots, for every retarded nsbm band/fan there's a flower of solitude in my tears little gay girl funeral doom band/fan or some tasteless posturing uber-brutal death band/fan, and the people who generalise about genres based on these misrepresentations are stupid fat transvestites.

another point, i don't know many metalheads who've really explored black metal and come out liking none of it. it's almost impossible actually because some bm bands are very very closely related to various traditional metal bands and the like. same applies to any sub-genre - if you love something in one, you're likely love something in all the others, because they all revolve to some extent around the same spiritual core. people tend to dislike/dismiss entire sub-genres of a genre they love based on superficial reasons, and by superficial i mean they're reasons that are quickly rendered false by accumulated experience.

I think metal as a whole can easily be misinterpreted in general.

I disagree that "if you love something in one [subgenre], you're likely love something in all the others, because they all revolve to some extent around the same spiritual core". Yes, similar idea and spirit can be found in a genre but I think it is possible that one may flat out dislike some sub-genres of it.

 

[challenge_everything]

I do understand what you are saying... but I can also argue that just because a person likes Tom Araya's vocals on Reign in Blood does not mean they are destined to enjoy black metal as long as certain "steps" are followed. I will try out Celtic Frost and Bathory just to see if I can get used to the vocals, but I am assuming it will end up the same as any other excusion into black metal I've taken... being moving from it quickly because of the vocals.

Or you can come at it from the reverse direction with melodic semi-BM stuff... I got into BM via bands like Arcturus and Dissection.

Edit: just stay away from stuff like Dimmu Borgir et al

 

[Janga666]

i'm sure you're right that it's not necessarily the case, but from experience i find it's pretty likely. i think RiB has much more in common with DM primarily, so maybe that would be the next step, and then there's DM which comes close to BM, etcetc. i'm not trying to say you *should* like black metal if you like RiB, i just think anyone who likes metal would more than likely reap many rewards from giving every one of its sub-genres quite a bit of time and effort, giving them the opportunity to get past any initial distractions, expectations, biases etc.

as an aside, i think sometimes people dismiss genres for different reasons; namely misinformed perceptions of what those genres entail. like for example i used to associate hard rock with glamour, flashy solos for their own sake, sleaze, etcetc so i stayed the hell away from it, but exposing myself to more of it made me realise just what a ridiculous generalisation that was (and i think it's one a lot of people share). god, some of that stuff is so dark and epic and visceral and mesmerising, i have no doubt that most metallers would love it if they gave it a chance.

i think with black metal, if some people associated it with the same feelings i associate it with, that'd probably make it far easier for them to get past the vocals, because they'd really want to get past them. i know that's how it was for me once upon a time - when i started reading all these reviews making it sound so fucking cool, i made an extra effort trying to understand how they found all these images and moods in the music, because to me it just sounded like ridiculous noise. in time, i did understand.

i suppose my underlying point is that it's best for the listener to approach all music with as little resistence as possible. if you still can't get anything out of it after a while then fine, no point wasting your life, but if you keep resisting stuff for one reason or another without really trying to get into it then you're gonna miss out on a whole lot, especially if the music in question is a sub-genre of a genre you've already got a lot out of.

Ok,. you've convinced me. I will give it a try... with no preconceived notions of how I'll like it. I'll try Celtic Frost and Bathory.

 

[waif]

Good.
The following from each:
Celtic Frost
Morbid Tales/Emperor's Return
To Mega Therion

Bathory
Under The Sign Of The Black Mark
Hammerheart

Those will make you want to get all the rest.

 

[Blind Guardian]

If they'll make him want Cold Lake he's better off without them.

 

[CF87]

Celtic Frost are obviously a thrash/DM band(Death Metal if need be) and have very heavy rythmic guitars/doomy passages and thrashy,etc.. and have traditional/rythmnic drumming and saying just because someone could get into say Celtic Frost does not mean it would be easy for them to actually get into BM as a genre because regardless all kinds of extreme metal bands being influenced by them does not mean any of those bands rfeally sound like them.

Darkthrone have celtic frost influences and can't get into their BM albums at all because really it actually really does not have the same traits in CF in terms of music and sound,etc.. that makes me enjoy the band.

Samething thing goes for MF and bands like Sodom,Destruction that have influenced both Death and BM

I like Mercyful Fate and people say they are a BM band and don't really like BM.

 

[Savern]

You're talking about black metal and you mention Dimmu and Dragonlord? Have you ever thought about the possibility that maybe your disassociation is due to ignorance?

Giant assumption on your part. I mentioned the bands I can listen to. Your assuming I haven't explored the genre when actually I have; I saw its popularity on these boards and delved in. Checked out quite a wide range of stuff. Bathory, Celtic Frost, Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Immortal, DSO, Gorgoroth, as well as Dimmu and Dragonlord. Some of it was good, I enjoyed plenty. It just didn't grab in the way other genres of metal has done.

I've no problem with the vocals, more with lots of it being repetitive and sometimes because of that - boring.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Ok,. you've convinced me. I will give it a try... with no preconceived notions of how I'll like it. I'll try Celtic Frost and Bathory.

cool man. if you want further suggestions id check out destroyer 666, necrophobic, dissection, stuff like that as well, all crosses over into BM whilst remaining rooted in other genres. and maybe some anomolous classics of BM that aren't really represented by the really big names (which i assume you've heard), stuff like sigh, root, varathron etc, although this stuff could put you off more i guess haha.

 

[Black Friday]

Shit, I've been needing to get some Black Metal. The way I see the genre is mostly the atmosphere of it. Sometimes you get it, and it's amazing and spiritual. Or you don't get it and it just sounds like a guy screeching with some homogenous sound in the background that's supposed to be instruments. In other words, amazing or terrible.

 

[Blind Guardian]

Celtic Frost are obviously a thrash/DM band(Death Metal if need be) and have very heavy rythmic guitars/doomy passages and thrashy,etc.. and have traditional/rythmnic drumming and saying just because someone could get into say Celtic Frost does not mean it would be easy for them to actually get into BM as a genre because regardless all kinds of extreme metal bands being influenced by them does not mean any of those bands rfeally sound like them.

The band i've always associated most with Celtic Frost is Morbid Angel actually, not in the spirit of the music but that Trey's bizarre guitar style seems very influenced by them.

 

[CF87]

If say someone was getting into metal or BM and you recomended say Bathory and they enjoyed bathory,

what fucking bands do you think the person is going to like more. BM bands or thrash metal bands like slayer,sodom,destruction and even metallica and motorhead.

Not fucking immortal,gorgoroth,dimmu borgir,darkthrone,emperoretc.. and BM bands. None of it is anything alike.

I just don't see how just because if someone liked Celtic Frost or Bathory or even MF they would actually like the BM genre or should. sorry

I don't give a shit if you are trying to start people at the roots of Extreme Music.

god this place sucks. I fucking hate BM fans.