Controversial opinions on metal

Mort Divine said:
If someone is truly passionate about something, who the fuck are you to tell them they're overreacting or that it is 'just music' or 'just something etc etc etc' because while yeah you don't view it as important, while it is something you just feed yourself to keep yourself from having to listen to silence, there are people who actually CARE enough to not want fuckwits like yourself mucking things up.
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Oh I'm passionate about music too, but at the same time I'm mature enough to listen to criticism without throwing a tantrum.

Mucking things up? How exactly? By having a different opinion to yours? Oh I'm sooo sorry your highness... *rolls eyes*

SomeGuyDude: I'm referring to the old school BM bands with the crappy sound quality. If you thing those sort of bands actually have talent you need your ears tested ;)
 
Vera Gemini said:
Oh I'm passionate about music too, but at the same time I'm mature enough to listen to criticism without throwing a tantrum.

Mucking things up? How exactly? By having a different opinion to yours? Oh I'm sooo sorry your highness... *rolls eyes*

SomeGuyDude: I'm referring to the old school BM bands with the crappy sound quality. If you thing those sort of bands actually have talent you need your ears tested ;)
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The difference in opinion isn't the issue, but rather the spreading of an opinion that is based in (willful?) ignorance. You claim that black metal isn't music, that most of it sounds exactly the same, that the bands have no talent, etc.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, I'm just sick of seeing idiots who don't 'understand' a style of music attacking it from angles that aren't even true.

Music, at its most base level, is arranging sounds in time. By that very definition black metal is music. Just because it doesn't adhere to typical standards of production quality, technical ability, or being pleasing to YOUR ears doesn't make it shit non-music.

I proved already why you're wrong on the 'it all sounds the same' route, so I won't go there again, and as far as no talent?

Again , black metal is not a fucking talent show. It does not rely on technical ability to reach the musical conclusions it wants to.

Varg Vikernes was a middling musician, but his ability to craft a song is nearly unparalleled in metal.

Ildjarn took the essentially punk base of extreme metal and brought it to the foreground of a black metal style and played an extremely primitive, yet highly evocative form of metal.

Darkthrone are obviously not world beaters on their instruments, but they've written amongst the best metal the world has to offer.
 
Mort Divine said:
The difference in opinion isn't the issue, but rather the spreading of an opinion that is based in (willful?) ignorance. You claim that black metal isn't music, that most of it sounds exactly the same, that the bands have no talent, etc.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, I'm just sick of seeing idiots who don't 'understand' a style of music attacking it from angles that aren't even true.

Music, at its most base level, is arranging sounds in time. By that very definition black metal is music. Just because it doesn't adhere to typical standards of production quality, technical ability, or being pleasing to YOUR ears doesn't make it shit non-music.

I proved already why you're wrong on the 'it all sounds the same' route, so I won't go there again, and as far as no talent?

Again , black metal is not a fucking talent show. It does not rely on technical ability to reach the musical conclusions it wants to.

Varg Vikernes was a middling musician, but his ability to craft a song is nearly unparalleled in metal.

Ildjarn took the essentially punk base of extreme metal and brought it to the foreground of a black metal style and played an extremely primitive, yet highly evocative form of metal.

Darkthrone are obviously not world beaters on their instruments, but they've written amongst the best metal the world has to offer.
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I'm saying COMPARED to other genres, it's not music. It's just bad sound quality, screaming and very boring, basic playing of instruments. If I described that sort of BM to someone who had never heard it, I'd doubt they'd be very interested in it.

There's nothing to understand, BM basically consists of angry, hate filled, narcissistic band members that want to shock and scare people. It's really not impressive at all, it's childish.

Talent does actually matter, it's what draws people to the music they like. But even if the talent isn't brilliant there are ways around it, like with AC/DC. They aren't musically that good and I'd say they're repetitive too, but their music is fun and energetic, so they get away with it. Black metal doesn't really have anything that salvages it in that way.

You mentioned the word primitive like it's a bad thing. Bands like Blue Cheer and Budgie are regarded as primitive but they're fucking amazing. There's a difference between being primitive and just not being capable of making interesting or good quality music. Not that you'd have any idea of who the bands I just mentioned were. You seem too narrow minded and modern to appreciate such music. The 60's and 70's had the best music, the bands back then would have laughed at the crappy music of today.
 
Vera Gemini said:
I'm saying COMPARED to other genres, it's not music. It's just bad sound quality, screaming and very boring, basic playing of instruments. If I described that sort of BM to someone who had never heard it, I'd doubt they'd be very interested in it.

There's nothing to understand, BM basically consists of angry, hate filled, narcissistic band members that want to shock and scare people. It's really not impressive at all, it's childish.

Talent does actually matter, it's what draws people to the music they like. But even if the talent isn't brilliant there are ways around it, like with AC/DC. They aren't musically that good and I'd say they're repetitive too, but their music is fun and energetic, so they get away with it. Black metal doesn't really have anything that salvages it in that way.

You mentioned the word primitive like it's a bad thing. Bands like Blue Cheer and Budgie are regarded as primitive but they're fucking amazing. There's a difference between being primitive and just not being capable of making interesting or good quality music. Not that you'd have any idea of who the bands I just mentioned were. You seem too narrow minded and modern to appreciate such music. The 60's and 70's had the best music, the bands back then would have laughed at the crappy music of today.
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:lol:

Music is music there is no 'this is more music than this' it is music if it is arranged sound. Nothing more.

It might not be as melodic, it might not focus as much on traditional production values, it might not have the same songwriting tropes, etc. but it is just as much music as any other genre.

Black metal does have something that salvages it for fans, it has a heavy focus on creating an atmosphere. Plenty of bands are insanely good at crafting catchy riffs, and shit there are even a lot of bands that do focus on making their music filled with interesting melodies.

I'm too narrow minded, and yet you're the one who is spouting off a bunch of 'THIS SHIT ISN'T MUSIC BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT MY IDEAS OF WHAT MUSIC IT' and it isn't like Blue Cheer and Budgie are exactly unknown so I don't know where you're getting at there...

Cheers.

But if you want to see my 'narrow mindedness' go ahead and have a laugh,


http://www.last.fm/user/CrushedAria
 
Mort Divine said:
:lol:

Music is music there is no 'this is more music than this' it is music if it is arranged sound. Nothing more.

It might not be as melodic, it might not focus as much on traditional production values, it might not have the same songwriting tropes, etc. but it is just as much music as any other genre.

Black metal does have something that salvages it for fans, it has a heavy focus on creating an atmosphere. Plenty of bands are insanely good at crafting catchy riffs, and shit there are even a lot of bands that do focus on making their music filled with interesting melodies.

I'm too narrow minded, and yet you're the one who is spouting off a bunch of 'THIS SHIT ISN'T MUSIC BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT MY IDEAS OF WHAT MUSIC IT' and it isn't like Blue Cheer and Budgie are exactly unknown so I don't know where you're getting at there...

Cheers.

But if you want to see my 'narrow mindedness' go ahead and have a laugh,


http://www.last.fm/user/CrushedAria
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Sorry, but I disagree. Technically it's music, yes but so is someone screaming at the top of their lungs while banging on some tin cans. BM is barely music, it's noise.

No, I think you'll find that I'm right. In 30 years who is really going to talk about BM? No one really. It's bands like Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple Led Zeppelin, UFO, etc that will still be talked about and loved, they've stood the test of time and they always will. That is the sort of music that is real!

I never said they were unheard of, what is unheard of is the fact such an immature moron would listen to them, you're certainly not their target audience. It's embarrassing...

I honestly couldn't be less interested in your silly music profile.
 
Vera Gemini said:
Sorry, but I disagree. Technically it's music, yes but so is someone screaming at the top of their lungs while banging on some tin cans. BM is barely music, it's noise.

No, I think you'll find that I'm right. In 30 years who is really going to talk about BM? No one really. It's bands like Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple Led Zeppelin, UFO, etc that will still be talked about and loved, they've stood the test of time and they always will. That is the sort of music that is real!

I never said they were unheard of, what is unheard of is the fact such an immature moron would listen to them, you're certainly not their target audience. It's embarrassing...

I honestly couldn't be less interested in your silly music profile.
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I have two words for you: cult following. As long as there are record stores, the internet, and bored listeners, music that has at any point had a cult following will remain a part of history.

Orchestras still gather to open and close a piano and sit still for John Cage's 4'33'. People enjoy displaying the peacock feathers of uniqueness, and publications like Pitchfork simply won't allow obscure, cult music to die.

But it's cool that you dig 70's hard rock. Balls to you.

Vera Gemini said:
There's nothing to understand, BM basically consists of angry, hate filled, narcissistic band members that want to shock and scare people. It's really not impressive at all, it's childish.
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Now see, it's blanket statements like this that make you sound like a damn fool. Because of its minimalist approach, Black Metal is by far one of the most malleable and expressive forms of metal. You're focusing on a very specific and popular group of bands that by no means represent the genre as a whole. Not all bands that play bm are satanic, or angry, or narcissistic. I'd say that some of the folks I've shared the stage with are the most well-adjusted, inspired people I've met.

Countless black metal bands, for example, dedicate their music to the beauty of untouched nature, the reward of a life dedicated to simplicity, honor, heritage, tradition, and philosophy. But Lords of Chaos is definitely a good read when you're sitting on the john.
 
I already explained why you're wrong regarding it being noise.



That is noise music. Not black metal.

Metal itself has been around about 45ish years. Black metal has been around for about 30 some odd years now, so why would people not discuss it in another 30? What makes those bands 'real' and Sacramentum, Immortal, Inquisition, Absu, Burzum, Varathron, etc. not 'real'? just because the 'mainstream' musical preferences don't include that kind of stuff (and don't play the BUT THIS ISN'T MAINSTREAM JUSTIN BIEBER IS! card) because fuck you Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, etc. can routinely be heard being praised everywhere and get routine radio play on rock based stations.

Fuck I hate your kind
 
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Eligos said:
I have two words for you: cult following. As long as there are record stores, the internet, and bored listeners, music that has at any point had a cult following will remain a part of history.

Orchestras still gather to open and close a piano and sit still for John Cage's 4'33'. People enjoy displaying the peacock feathers of uniqueness, and publications like Pitchfork simply won't allow obscure, cult music to die.

But it's cool that you dig 70's hard rock. Balls to you.
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Maybe so, but even then it won't have the same status and be as loved as classic rock bands etc

I do hope that there are more people who appreciate it on here or I'll lose all hope for this forum *sighs*

Mort Divine: Yes I chose to ignore that little comment before as it's utterly retarded. I don't care if the word noise has it's own music genre, my point is that BM has no real melody and gives me a headache if I listen to it too much.

Of course those bands are mainstream! Thanks for that I had no idea! *rolls eyes* Why is being mainstream a bad thing? Those bands are popular because they are so bloody good! A band being underground doesn't make them cooler or better than ones that aren't. If you think that then you're even more retarded than I first thought.
 
Vera Gemini said:
No, I think you'll find that I'm right. In 30 years who is really going to talk about BM? No one really. It's bands like Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple Led Zeppelin, UFO, etc that will still be talked about and loved, they've stood the test of time and they always will. That is the sort of music that is real!
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Well let's think. Burzum, Darkthrone, Mayhem, and Emperor are all over 20 years old and still well revered as legends in black metal and for inspiring leagues of bands in their wake, so there's no reason to think they won't be the same in another 20. Venom's album "Black Metal" actually is over 30 years old and you still can't talk about the sound without that coming up.

You are still an arrogant twat, and now you're proving your ignorance more and more.
 
Vera Gemini said:
Maybe so, but even then it won't have the same status and be as loved as classic rock bands etc
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And definitely not the renown of Taylor Swift, I mean holy shit. That girl has all the status in the world right now, she's a walking meme, and her music is just so good. You can tell that her songs, which take her on average about 10 minutes to write, are very well thought-out and contemplated. She's fuckin real and raw.

Vera Gemini said:
Why is being mainstream a bad thing?
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Being mainstream is not a bad thing at all. The Beatles were mainstream. Radiohead is mainstream. But success is not the reason that artists do what they do, and music loses its artistic merit when it is a mere impetus of success. It's a moot point when applied to black metal.
 
This dude has to be a troll. I've never seen anyone literally protest that people are misunderstanding his posts and then follow it up by saying exactly the thing he claimed he didn't mean, repeatedly. So it's all just to get a rise.

Good job for making the thread lively for a minute, though.
 
SomeGuyDude: I'm a girl and the picture in my avatar is of me.

So I'm a troll because I'm trying to explain that although BM has it's moments, it's not as good a genre as people here are claiming? Sure... *rolls eyes* This thread is actually supposed to be about CONTROVERSIAL opinions, so what did you expect?

Mort Divine: I was referring to old school BM as that was the type of BM I've been criticising this whole time!

Both of you need to grow up and accept that there are other genres apart from BM.
 
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