Controversial opinions on metal

[HamburgerBoy]

My favorite Morbid Saint riff sounds Savatage-inspired, so fuck Kreator. What I love about Morbid Saint is that they blatantly worship all the surface elements of Kreator (vocals and production particularly) but riff-wise are more about well-executed simplicity, both in speed/thrash styles as well as chunkier and mid-tempo ones, 100% American and proud. As much as I can enjoy Pleasure to Kill and it's whirlwind of tremolo-picked proto-death metal savagery, it's not the same kind of album at all as Spectrum of Death (unlike, say, Merciless' The Awakening).

EDIT: Lulu is listenable. I'd take it over anything Megadeth has done since Cryptic Writings. If it was cut down by maybe 30 minutes I'd probably like it.

EDIT #2: And Devastation bro? Idolatry is good but with far more obvious influences than Morbid Saint.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I still haven't heard the last few Metallica albums ... I've been wanting to check out Death Magnetic for a while now.

I know its some type of collabo album, but who the fuck is Lou Reed? I'm looking at the genre labels on RYM and see experimental rock and "spoken word". wtf

 

[Onder]

I still haven't heard the last few Metallica albums ... I've been wanting to check out Death Magnetic for a while now.

I know its some type of collabo album, but who the fuck is Lou Reed? I'm looking at the genre labels on RYM and see experimental rock and "spoken word". wtf

You don't know who Lou Reed was?

 

[blacktape]

My favorite Morbid Saint riff sounds Savatage-inspired, so fuck Kreator. What I love about Morbid Saint is that they blatantly worship all the surface elements of Kreator (vocals and production particularly) but riff-wise are more about well-executed simplicity, both in speed/thrash styles as well as chunkier and mid-tempo ones, 100% American and proud. As much as I can enjoy Pleasure to Kill and it's whirlwind of tremolo-picked proto-death metal savagery, it's not the same kind of album at all as Spectrum of Death (unlike, say, Merciless' The Awakening).

EDIT: Lulu is listenable. I'd take it over anything Megadeth has done since Cryptic Writings. If it was cut down by maybe 30 minutes I'd probably like it.

EDIT #2: And Devastation bro? Idolatry is good but with far more obvious influences than Morbid Saint.

And TechnicalBarbarity wrote:

I still haven't heard the last few Metallica albums ... I've been wanting to check out Death Magnetic for a while now.

I know its some type of collabo album, but who the fuck is Lou Reed? I'm looking at the genre labels on RYM and see experimental rock and "spoken word". wtf

I find this funny because I was just about to come in and say Kreator is too much like Metallica...I mean, the song "Betrayer" blatantly stole that one part from "For Whom The Bell Tolls." So whoever said that they contributed nothing, I agree with that. They're not original at all. But I still dig the vocals on "Betrayer." I didn't give them much of a listen after that. I listened to Hordes of Chaos and was like meh, so didn't bother with them after-the-fact.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Ummmm ... thanks for telling us what I wrote, two posts right above you. None of us saw them until your brought it to our attention, THANKS! Why in the world did you even quote those posts?

I obviously disagree with him so I didn't want to push it further. Outside of the drums, with Spectrum of Death you basically get 2nd rate PtK thats been slowed down and mixed with a bit of Terrible Certainty sprinkled in. And I really don't give too much of a fuck about the influences, especially if said band is just as good, or maybe even better than their source of inspiration. Like I said I love Spectrum of Death, but it's no Pleasure to Kill.

Neither album sounds like the traditional thrash Metallica was putting out at the time, but are you going to tell me Pleasure to Kill has more similarities to most of the thrash of that time than Spectrum of Death? :LOL:

Also, early Kreator sounds NOTHING like Metallica.

Oh and I hope I didn't offend you in any way, we already know how sensitive you are and all.

You don't know who Lou Reed was?

NO WAY MAN! I was kidding, just trying to be cool by saying I don't know him, offcourse I know Lou, who doesn't know Lou, we all know Lou ...... no I fucking don't know who Lou Reed is. Does that surprise you?

 

[matt schrauben]

Thrash is one of those genres where while listening to a record I'll be like, "Man this slays!" but once the record is over I can't remember a fucking thing I just listened to. In other words I find a lot of it doesn't have much return value for me. Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part, I just like thrash elements in my metal rather than straight up thrash.

I am open to straight thrash recommendations, though. Honestly it's not metal I explore often outside of the main pillars of the genre.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

For straight thrash, here are some obvious ones .... early Megadeth, Slayer, Metallica. First two Testament albums are thrash gold. Tankard have some great stuff, especially their first two. Also check out the first few Razor albums. Vio-Lence, if you can get past the vocals. Kreator's Terrible Certainty and Sodoms Persecution Mania are two good ones to also check out, and as straight forwards thrash as they got early on in their careers ... you might also dig a lot their more recent albums. Early Heathen and Artillery are also really good, but have some speed metal traits.

You've probably already heard most of those, I gotta get going but will post more later when I get back.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Spectrum of Death already IS slower than Pleasure to Kill. The vocal similarities between Petrozza and Lind are obvious, but aside from that they don't sound that much like Kreator.

And Coma of Souls sounds more like Metallica than anything, but of course, picking on one of their very worst albums isn't fair when judging the band on a whole.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Yea, my bad I actually meant it sounds more like slowed down 2nd rate PtK worship than anything . And by early Kreator I mean their first few albums. Coma does indeed share a lot similarities with Metallica, as did a lot of the thrash metal that was being released at the time .... but it's far from being one of their worst.

 

[blacktape]

Ummmm ... thanks for telling us what I wrote, two posts right above you. None of us saw them until your brought it to our attention, THANKS! Why in the world did you even quote those posts?

I obviously disagree with him so I didn't want to push it further. Outside of the drums, if you slowed down Spectrum of Death you basically get 2nd rate PtK worship with a bit of Terrible Certainty sprinkled in. And I really don't give too much of a fuck about the influences, especially if said band is just as good, or maybe even better than their source of inspiration. Like I said I love Spectrum of Death, but it's no Pleasure to Kill.

Neither album sounds like the traditional thrash Metallica was putting out at the time, but are you going to tell me Pleasure to Kill has more similarities to most of the thrash of that time than Spectrum of Death? :LOL:

Also, early Kreator sounds NOTHING like Metallica.

Oh and I hope I didn't offend you in any way, we already know how sensitive you are and all.

I said I listened to Hordes of Chaos and didn't pay much attention to them after that. In other words, I don't know much about Kreator because of what I heard in the work I listened to. I'm not going to listen to the entire discography of a band that I don't like just to prove a point.

I quoted the posts because there is no connected thought to your Metallica reference and the comparison to Kreator, and I referenced 'that one part.' But really, the whole thing is structurally similar. All I know about Kreator is:



then listen to:



Learn to reed.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

Those two songs don't sound alike at all except that they're both vaguely from the same umbrella genre. The same goes for both bands really, they're both thrash metal bands but that's about all they have in common, musically atleast.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I quoted the posts because there is no connected thought to your Metallica reference and the comparison to Kreator, and I referenced 'that one part.' All I know about Kreator is:

Oh, so what you got from my post was that I was comparing them to Metallica? Oh wow. And you say I need to learn how to read? Man I shouldn't have even bothered with you initially if I knew this was going to be the case ... dumb as a fucking sack of hammers.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yea, my bad I actually meant it sounds more like slowed down 2nd rate PtK worship than anything . And by early Kreator I mean their first few albums. Coma does indeed share a lot similarities with Metallica, as did a lot of the thrash metal that was being released at the time .... but it's far from being one of their worst.

But it still doesn't sound that much like PtK. Maybe you could draw a comparison between the slowest songs on PtK (say, Riot of Violence) and the fastest songs on Spectrum of Death (probably Burned at the Stake or Damien), but then you're ignoring the elements that actually make PtK special. And even Burned at the Stake opens with a total Exodus-style riff and goes Slayer halfway through, and Damien is basically just really fast chugging. I think people over-attribute the development of extreme thrash to the Germans tbh.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Those two songs don't sound alike at all except that they're both vaguely from the same umbrella genre. The same goes for both bands really, they're both thrash metal bands but that's about all they have in common, musically atleast.

The melody in For Whom... around 1:10 and in Betrayer around 2:20 are similar, but of course it's a very simple melody that anyone could copy. Besides, Metallica yanked the chorus riff of that one from Angel Witch's Angel of Death to begin with.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I mean, if you guys cant hear the similarities throughout both albums than your just in straight up fucking denial. Like i said, for the thousandth time, it's slowed-down 2nd rate PtK worship, and i still love it. Only big difference between the two, like Rumpole said, is the drumming.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Spectrum of Death only has a couple of tremolo-picked riffs tops compared to Pleasure to Kill which is primarily based on them and is full-on death/thrash.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I think people over-attribute the development of extreme thrash to the Germans tbh.

Are you somehow trying to imply that Spectrum of Death is was more important to the development of extreme thrash than Pleasure to Kill?? AAAhhahahahhhahAHAHash ... wow man.

I love how the internet has turned some of these less known average/good albums of the 80's and 90's into "gems" that somehow are better than most of the classics that came out during the time. Fucking ridiculous.

Spectrum of Death is awesome, a good 4/5 stars(RYM) for me ... but people need to stop fucking acting like it's top tier thrash ... because it's not.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No, I agree that Spectrum of Death wasn't particularly innovative or important in any way. I'm saying that outside of vocals, the inspiration seems to be more from the extreme bands of the Bay Area (Slayer, Baloff-era Exodus, maybe Possessed, etc). Stepping away briefly from the Morbid Saint discussion, I'd say that Dark Angel circa 1985 (when Darkness Descends had already been written) were far faster and more extreme than Destruction or Kreator (although admittedly Sodom still had the necro edge at the time). I'm just making a broad comment where while most people like to create an easy distinction between American thrash and Teutonic thrash, it only remotely holds up if one only looks at the big 4 vs the trio.

But Spectrum is definitely top-tier. Sheer quality and savage aggression.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

And a lot of the "classics" are shit clones of the biggest names that larger (or major) labels picked up on in dire expectation of cashing in on the Metallica craze. Most of the "classics" released some of their very worst songs in the late 80's, from Kreator on CBS, to Metal Church on Epic, to Testament and Overkill on Atlantic. During those times you had bands like Coroner, Anacrusis, early Pestilence, etc that were making much more interesting music concurrent with those "classics".

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

released some of their very worst songs/albums in the 90's

Fixed that for you.

Coroner is obviously included when speaking of thrash metal "classics". They're one of the greatest bands of all time.

I need to listen to more Anacrusis.