Controversial opinions on metal

[HamburgerBoy]

The implication that backing all of your melodies with keyboards constitutes symphony never fails to amuse me. That applies to In the Nightside Eclipse, btw.

 

[Krow]

Symphonics are mostly annoying and only work in very few bands.

 

[ProphetofHatred]

I'm having a very hard time believing UltimateApathy is a real person.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

Aaaaaah gotta love that ignore button.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

Considering that this is a largely Americanized forum, this will no doubt be a controversial Metal opinion: any genre of Metal which involves the incorporation of symphonic/orecestral elements along with the traditional factors is FAR better. For example:

Symphonic Black Metal (so much better than plain Black Metal stuff)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIORiAIiZhc

Symphonic Power Metal (huge advantage over traditional Power Metal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eYM8Bntzkg
Symphonic Death Metal (variety is a virtue)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjKyzwqIT7s

And the list goes on... BEETHOVEN'S HOOD FUCKING RULES, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS

As much as I enjoy symphonic metal done well, the idea that symphonic is always better than not is just yampy. From that line of reasoning one could argue that Anorexia Nervosa is better than classic Mayhem or Darkthrone, or that Fairyland - I don't know why you cite that band as the epitome of greatness when they strike me as typical generic flowery power metal - is better than Grave Digger.

On the other hand, you lot who are saying symphonic elements are invariably shit are also wrong. It's one thing to not like it, but don't act like it has no place in metal; that's just misguided purism.

 

[blacktape]

As much as I enjoy symphonic metal done well, the idea that symphonic is always better than not is just yampy. From that line of reasoning one could argue that Anorexia Nervosa is better than classic Mayhem or Darkthrone, or that Fairyland - I don't know why you cite that band as the epitome of greatness when they strike me as typical generic flowery power metal - is better than Grave Digger.

On the other hand, you lot who are saying symphonic elements are invariably shit are also wrong. It's one thing to not like it, but don't act like it has no place in metal; that's just misguided purism.

Agreed.

 

[matt schrauben]

I like symphonic metal a lot, but it only consists of a small portion of my record collection. For symphonic metal to work it has to be written with the symphonic elements in mind, and not just shoehorned in. Plus, most bands can still create a huge, grand sound without said elements anyway.

 

[UltimateApathy]

The implication that backing all of your melodies with keyboards constitutes symphony never fails to amuse me..

Acoording to Wikipedia, Symphonic Metal involves the use of keyboards AND/OR classical music elements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_metal

And Fairyland's first album contained some of the most sublime, complex and beautiful combinations of classical music with keyboards and guitars, and if not the best Symphonic Power Metal, then dang near to it. And I'm not saying I can't enjoy Metal without Symphonic elements, there are plenty of non-Symphonic bands I like, but I always tend to appreciate a band MORE if they include symphonic sounds. Here are a few more examples of what I'm talking about in terms of Symphonic Power Metal:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPKtArXLUzY&list=PLfiiLzUrOLTawfWfCKYy1T_Bo0L7P2oqV&shuffle=456[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRJyfnP-Wi8&list=PLfiiLzUrOLTawfWfCKYy1T_Bo0L7P2oqV&shuffle=456[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nItx9Rkyc8&list=PLfiiLzUrOLTawfWfCKYy1T_Bo0L7P2oqV&shuffle=456[/ame]

And a couple more on the Symphonic Black Metal side of things:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmitxr-EAQw&list=PLfiiLzUrOLTawfWfCKYy1T_Bo0L7P2oqV&shuffle=456[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX6-Yo1tt7A&list=PLfiiLzUrOLTawfWfCKYy1T_Bo0L7P2oqV&shuffle=456[/ame]

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I haven't listened to Rhapsody of Fire since they had to change their name from Rhapsody, but I have to admit that I'm enjoying that song an odd amount. The raspy/"harsh" vocals are crap, but otherwise that's some of the busiest Europower I'm aware of.

EDIT: It looks like that album has a somewhat better reputation than their other stuff. I might at least give that one a chance. My biggest problem with flowery Europower has never been the fruitiness itself as much as a lack of dynamics, but if they fixed that issue I would listen to them.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I like symphonic metal a lot, but it only consists of a small portion of my record collection. For symphonic metal to work it has to be written with the symphonic elements in mind, and not just shoehorned in. Plus, most bands can still create a huge, grand sound without said elements anyway.

Pretty much

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Aaaaaah gotta love that ignore button.

The silence must be bliss.

I don't like many symphonic bands either. I also don't like that many folk metal bands to be honest. Those styles can get a little cheesy and overdone quickly.

Edit: It kind of blows my mind. It you like "orchestral" sounds why not get involved with REAL orchestral music and listen to classical music instead of bands who have keyboardist whose been playing for 3 years.

 

[dwellerINTHEdark]

I mean, Summoning...

 

[KafkaX]

On the other hand, you lot who are saying symphonic elements are invariably shit are also wrong. It's one thing to not like it, but don't act like it has no place in metal; that's just misguided purism.

Keyboards in Metal is tricky. I shouldve been more clear, but I was mildly drunk and just ranting. As a mild accent to the music, it can be a wonderful thing but when it steps into this symphonic shit? Im out. The keys distract me from the other music thats going on because it has a campy, gothic, church choir, and/or teenage angst lullaby feel to it that I just cant hear past.

But just like F_D just said, if I want to listen to symphonies or orchestral music, Im throwing on Mozart, Beethoven or something of the like. I DO NOT turn to metal to deliver those elements because it simply doesnt work the vast majority of the time. Id even go as far to say as it fails.

Same goes for folk. Korpiklaani, Finntroll etc. is just as bad. A little bit of a folk element thrown in the mix can be a great thing, but more times than not its over done and it looses its appeal almost immediately as well.

My main point is when keyboards are used (in metal) in small doses, it can go a long way. But when its over done (like every fucking song UA posts) its the biggest wankery of absolute gayness to fall under the metal umbrella. They have their place and its not in Metal.

 

[dwellerINTHEdark]

Haggard is the best union of symphonics and metal. True orchestration is always preferable to keyboards, but the latter usually suffices. Estatic Fear also utilizes instrumentation in an authentic manner. Excellent band. There are numerous examples of bands where the use of symphonics enhance the sound. Even bands like Sycronomica who use the keyboards for a cheesy gothic purpose are successful because their sound wouldn't be achieved without it. I know a lot of bands are shit and cover it up with a keyboard band-aid, but there is simply a significant amount of bands out their that utilize symphonics effectively... and I wouldn't want a keyboard-less version of those.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

The silence must be bliss.

I don't like many symphonic bands either. I also don't like that many folk metal bands to be honest. Those styles can get a little cheesy and overdone quickly.

Edit: It kind of blows my mind. It you like "orchestral" sounds why not get involved with REAL orchestral music and listen to classical music instead of bands who have keyboardist whose been playing for 3 years.

I do listen to actual classical music, though. But I veer towards the darker side of it, generally speaking. Modest Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain is pretty metal, don't you think? Not literally, of course, but it evokes a similar feeling. So it's not as if we are talking about combining two things that are as different as night and day.

Also, some bands do utilize real orchestras; for example, Therion has been doing so since Vovin.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Symphonics can be amazing when done right i.e. Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk. It can create way more depth and a wider spectrum than traditional rock instruments can by themselves. There are also a ton of black metal bands that are less sophisticated in their use of synths but still use their synths to create a dreamy backdrop and powerful ambiance (i.e. Burzum, Drudkh). On the other hand, it can turn a song into a Scooby Doo Halloween Special (Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia).

 

[KafkaX]

I need to give Emperor another shot, because honestly theyve never stuck with me. I never got the hype. Even with In The Nightside Eclipse...

 

[crimsonfloyd]

If you're gonna check them out again, I'd go for Anthems over Nightside. To me Anthems is nothing short of brilliant. There's just these amazing contrasts between weightless, soaring, heavenly melodies and tones, and muddy, swirling chaos, with both often occurring simultaneously. It has this very Romantic quality to it, with the protagonist constantly crawling toward this heavenly dimension, only to be pulled back to the depths of chaos time after time.

Nightside is really good, but is slightly overrated. There are some amazing tracks on the record (Into the Pantheon, The Majesty of the Night Sky), but there are also a few poppy softballs (I Am the Black Wizzards and Inno a Santana) that I do personally find entertaining, but are not examples of Emperor at their best.

Anthems, on the other hand, is a completely unified and perfectly structured work of art.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Some nice bands mentioned here for sure. My favorite Therion song is this gem:



Favorite Summoning song would be:



Best Haggard song IMO:



And my favorite song off "Anthem to the Welkin at Dusk" by Emperor:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYIIS_LQhs8&list=PL19EDDA5F0EAE5627[/ame]

 

[Funerary_Doom]

I do listen to actual classical music, though. But I veer towards the darker side of it, generally speaking. Modest Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain is pretty metal, don't you think? Not literally, of course, but it evokes a similar feeling. So it's not as if we are talking about combining two things that are as different as night and day.

Also, some bands do utilize real orchestras; for example, Therion has been doing so since Vovin.

Ha, touche. Not to say that there are no good symphonic metal bands. There are obviously quite a few. I do enjoy Emperor and Summoning (i mean Summoning is my most listened to band and Emperor has made a couple albums I'd consider to be metal classics), but Therion is not quite my cup of tea. I really don't think Therion combines metal with symphony well and tbh it sounds to me dull and uninteresting. It's cool they use real orchestras but I'd would rather listen to that Mussorgsky movement you mentioned (which is awesome btw! i definitely heard parts of it before in old-school 90s cartoons at least that "Dun-dun-dun-dun-dunnnn" part). I was also just disagreeing with the comment about symphonic metal bands being superior to non-symphonic metal bands...