Controversial opinions on metal

[ASD]

I call bands like Kalmah or Wintersun "extreme power metal." For the most part the music is power metal, but they do have some sorta death metally moments with the growls and occasional blastbeats.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

No, you actually couldn't be more wrong, even if you tried. Vocal style has no bearing on the genre of music being played.

And musically, Wintersun is power metal; the riffage, is power metal riffage. Obviously you haven't actually listened to the Wintersun S/T in full, because anybody with working ears, can tell that it is power metal with harsh vocals (aka extreme power metal).

You say it sounds identical to "post black or death"? How many drugs are you on right now, son? Listen to the opening track. Listen to Sleeping Stars. Listen to Starchild. Anybody who could say those are anything other than power metal, is either retarded, or lacks functioning ears. You're trying to argue a topic that is not open for debate.



This doesn't even make any sense... the fuck? So, you're saying that bands like Children of Bodom, Kalmah, and other bands in this spectrum... are death metal?

Again, I say to thee: "Get the fuck out of my office."

Butthead, just read my reply to Mort Confused. Basically the same thing can be said to the above post you just made. You guys who say that vocals have no bearing on genre are absolutely fucking nonsensical in every fucking way. What's the fucking point of having a death metal band if they don't growl? It's so fucking illogical. Musicians in these death metal bands, if you have ever read interviews with them (especially front men) have stated this fact - that vocals are what make death metal bands classifiable as death metal - from Glen Benton to Karl Sanders to Michael Akerfeldt etc. Again, this is not a difficult concept to grasp. If not from me, take it from them? Fuck off.

 

[skeptik]

Clean vocaled covers of classic death metal songs change their genres. I are smarts.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

lol the more I think about this the more retarded you guys are. Think about it. When someone says 'death metal' what's the first thing you think of? 99.9 percent of people would first say violent, deep, brutal, gutteral vocals. It's so obvious.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

Clean vocaled covers of classic death metal songs change their genres. I are smarts.

Hey is it true you killed a guy once? Been meaning to ask...


And yes the genre changes to a great extent. Clearly.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

lol the more I think about this the more retarded you guys are. Think about it. When someone says 'death metal' what's the first thing you think of? 99.9 percent of people would first say violent, deep, brutal, gutteral vocals. It's so obvious.

Thats because 99.9% of people don't understand death metal. So I guess in your way of thinking an instrumental death metal band doesn't exist?

 

[The Emptier]

 

[Einherjar86]

Take away the death metal growls from a death metal band, as you suggested, and replace them with clean vocals and there is NO WAY you can call said band death metal. Think about it. Put clean vocals over a Nile song and tell me they're a death metla band.

Well, people might not call it "good" death metal, but it's still death metal.

Kiuas employs death grunts; this illuminates the speciousness of vocal styles as indicative of genre. The instrumental differences between a band such as Nile and a power metal band like Lost Horizon are so discrete that vocals have no bearing on the premises. Furthermore, Arcturus and Borknagar have albums comprised of almost entirely clean vocals, but this doesn't mean they aren't black metal.

Yoda's point about instrumental music also is an excellent point.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

Thats because 99.9% of people don't understand death metal. So I guess in your way of thinking an instrumental death metal band doesn't exist?

Not a pure one, of course not.

Can you name some death metal bands that don't have death metal vocals? it's an oxymoron.

 

[Vossyrus]

I agree that vocals really don't mean much in determining genres. They may indicate influences but that's about it.

I remember a lot of people used to call Children of Bodom black metal based on their singer's vocals.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

Well, people might not call it "good" death metal, but it's still death metal.

Kiuas employs death grunts; this illuminates the speciousness of vocal styles as indicative of genre. The instrumental differences between a band such as Nile and a power metal band like Lost Horizon are so discrete that vocals have no bearing on the premises. Furthermore, Arcturus and Borknagar have albums comprised of almost entirely clean vocals, but this doesn't mean they aren't black metal.

Yoda's point about instrumental music also is an excellent point.

Disagree with you, too, my good friend. Are you trying to say that The Sham Mirrors is a black metal record? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. As well, just because a band 'incorporates' some grunts into their music doesn't mean they play that style. The power metal band Serenity, to take an example, has a song with two or three low grunts. Are you to say that that mollifies their typically power metal sound? I am talking about bands that use, as a primary delivery, a specific style of vocals. This is what separates death metal when talking about one of the main if not THE main trait of this music.

Nile has songs where Dallas and Karl whisper...does that mean they're not a death metal band? I mean c'mon dude. Name some death metal bands that don't use death metal vocals. Go for it.

 

[skeptik]

There's no such thing as "death metal" vocals or "black metal" vocals or "power metal" vocals.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Not a pure one, of course not.

Can you name some death metal bands that don't have death metal vocals? it's an oxymoron.

Katatonia's the closest I'm aware of.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Man you are very, very confused. You're not a deep thinker, either. Check it out. In the institution of music, of course the music being played determines certain genres. Rock is rock, classical is classical, jazz is jazz right? But within these genres - heavy metal is the genre we deal with- the vocal delivery is one of the main criteria for distinguishing these sub genres, especially death metal and power metal. Take away the death metal growls from a death metal band, as you suggested, and replace them with clean vocals and there is NO WAY you can call said band death metal. Think about it. Put clean vocals over a Nile song and tell me they're a death metla band. You simpy cannot, and if you don't see why this is, then you don't.

hold on, so your saying if you take say Dragonforce and replace their vocalist with someone like Antti Boman from Demilich they somehow become a death metal band?

edit: i dont agree that vocals have no bearing, but they are not the main deciding factor on what sub genre of music it is, thats decided by the actual music they play .... and ummm, are you saying all metal is basically the same music but with different vocals?

 

[Einherjar86]

Not a pure one, of course not.

Can you name some death metal bands that don't have death metal vocals? it's an oxymoron.

Now you're reverting to purist claims. There is no "pure" death metal. As far as the oxymoronic claim goes, you're making the mistake of thinking that just because one might not exist means there is conceivably no such thing.

Let me go through this point by point:

Disagree with you, too, my good friend. Are you trying to say that The Sham Mirrors is a black metal record? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

The Sham Mirrors, no; La Masquerade Infernale and Aspera Hiems Symfonia, yes.

As well, just because a band 'incorporates' some grunts into their music doesn't mean they play that style. The power metal band Serenity, to take an example, has a song with two or three low grunts. Are you to say that that mollifies their typically power metal sound? I am talking about bands that use, as a primary delivery, a specific style of vocals. This is what separates death metal when talking about one of the main if not THE main trait of this music.

You're placing too much significance on vocal style. According to your argument, songs that employ different vocal styles are continually changing genres. You cannot make a distinction between bands that use different vocal styles sparingly and ones that employ the same one consistently; if vocal style inherently changes the genre, then songs are bouncing back and forth. Kiuas has some songs where all verses are delivered with low death grunts and the choruses are clean; the song doesn't switch back and forth between genres.

Nile has songs where Dallas and Karl whisper...does that mean they're not a death metal band? I mean c'mon dude. Name some death metal bands that don't use death metal vocals. Go for it.

Again, you're making a mistake. Just because none of us can think of one doesn't mean that you're correct; that's a fallacy.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

I always considered and will always consider Wintersun to be blackened power metal. Both musically and aesthetically. The harsh vocals and occasional blast bleats make them very hard to argue against them being influenced by black metal.

 

[Kulak]

I don’t think Vocals make a genre but certain Vocals style are common traits of some genres more than others.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I don’t think Vocals make a genre but certain Vocals style are common traits of some genres more than others.

Yeah. The reason it's called "death vox" or "black vox" is that it's a sound that's incredibly common in that genre. You can tell black or death metal by the vox or by the guitar riffs, generally speaking. Pull out either one and yes, I can still tell ya which it's gonna be 95% of the time (meaning, you aren't hunting down genre-benders).

Thrash, doom, sludge, death, black, power, grind, they all have tons of characteristics to 'em.

 

[TheInsane]

There's no such thing as "death metal" vocals or "black metal" vocals or "power metal" vocals.

Of course there are vocals defined by the use in different styles of metal. It doesnt mean that a genre can be decided soley on the vocals however.

It is quite clear that death metals most common form of vocals is a lower pitched growl, black metals most common vocals is a higher pitched "closed" scream and that power metal uses a high pitch clean vocal style.

Then of course these can be mixed to varying degrees. However I think that if someone says death metal style vocals most of us understand what is meant by it because of the common nature of the death metal growling vocal style.

Its the same thing if someone talk about death metal drumming. There is a huge difference between styles and songs but there is still some kind of essence which makes us understand how it might differ from jazz drumming or pop drumming.

 

[The Butt]

Man you are very, very confused. You're not a deep thinker, either. Check it out. In the institution of music, of course the music being played determines certain genres. Rock is rock, classical is classical, jazz is jazz right? But within these genres - heavy metal is the genre we deal with- the vocal delivery is one of the main criteria for distinguishing these sub genres, especially death metal and power metal. Take away the death metal growls from a death metal band, as you suggested, and replace them with clean vocals and there is NO WAY you can call said band death metal. Think about it. Put clean vocals over a Nile song and tell me they're a death metla band. You simpy cannot, and if you don't see why this is, then you don't. But I don't get how this is hard to understand. You've clearly been listening to music in general and metal specifically for all of 4 years maybe. Or maybe the problem is you're not listening to enough metal since you like all that pop shit.

He may listen to pop, but his mental capacity clearly dwarfs yours, if you still cling to this idiotic notion that death metal cannot have clean vocals, and power metal cannot have harsh vocals.

Butthead, just read my reply to Mort Confused. Basically the same thing can be said to the above post you just made. You guys who say that vocals have no bearing on genre are absolutely fucking nonsensical in every fucking way. What's the fucking point of having a death metal band if they don't growl? It's so fucking illogical. Musicians in these death metal bands, if you have ever read interviews with them (especially front men) have stated this fact - that vocals are what make death metal bands classifiable as death metal - from Glen Benton to Karl Sanders to Michael Akerfeldt etc. Again, this is not a difficult concept to grasp. If not from me, take it from them? Fuck off.

Mort Confused, Butthead... that's cute. Even then, you're still wrong; the only way you would be more wrong right now, is if you said the sky is shit-brown with purple polka-dots.

As I said before, you're a fucking idiot if you think that power metal bands cannot have harsh vocals, and death metal bands cannot have clean vocals.

Hows abouts you stop evading my question, and just answer the fucking thing for once: Are you actually trying to tell me that early Children of Bodom, for example, is remotely death metal at all? They lack any death metal characteristics... musically, they are power metal. But OH NOES HARSH VOKULS THEY MUST BE THE DETH METHUL RITE? Come on, answer the question. Give us all a laugh.