creation

Stygian_Apothegm said:
just to clear things up religion has 2 universal charactertistics and some common, but not universal characteristics.
universal:
supernatural power or forces
power/forces can be contacted
common:
power/forces reside in deities/gods or objects
power/forces responsible for creating world
notion of 'personal' god (ie christianity)
now where does an atheist fall in this? atheists believe in nothing, NOTHING. a god/force is SOMETHING, atheists believe in NOTHING. that means they do NOT believe in a god/force.
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Ignore me if you want kid, but the fact remains that both atheists and theists BELIEVE in something. There is no evidence backing up either the theists or the skeptics view on God.


Stygian_Apothegm said:
do not try to argue this, it's been proven around the world, hence the word universal.
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What has been proven? That theists believe in the supernatural and the skeptics don't? Wow, thank you for clearing that one up.
rolleyes.gif


Stygian_Apothegm said:
any childish comments from you will be ignored, try to show yourself some diginity.
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Please, stop with your "I'm not talking to you anymore" little frets. I know you'll read my posts anyway.
 
I'd say that atheists are generally smarter than theists because, and this is just a general statement mind you, they choose to challenge that which is force fed to them. That's not to say that there aren't some atheists who believe what they do because they were force fed it by their parents, but a larger percentage of the population is religious than isn't, so it's safe to assume that theists just blindly follow what they were brainwashed into believing as children while atheists likely challenged the rediculous belief in fairy tales, erm, religion.
 
i can also make a general statement saying that atheists, generally, believe in no god or the such soley because they hate their religious parents or stupid people that they used to associate with. an atheist would have nothing to do with his enemies, therefore beliefs must become seperate. it can never be possible for someone to be completely knowing that there is no god - that is why i would be forced to make this assumption.
 
KielbasaSausage said:
both atheists and theists BELIEVE in something. There is no evidence backing up either the theists or the skeptics view on God.
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I think you're hung up on your use of the term 'believe'. In the case of atheists, I would think it's more a case of "I don't believe there's a god" as opposed to "I believe there isn't a god". Note the difference. The religious come from a viewpoint of having to 'have faith something exists'. Atheists see no evidence of god and so don't pay any attention to it, it does not require 'belief' that there isn't a god, merely that no evidence is given of there being a god, so the concept is dismissed.

That's the way I see it, anyway.
 
I was raised by parents who didn't subscribe to any form of religion. Technically, my father is jewish and my mother is christian, but we never went to church or temple. On my own accord I attended church for a while in middle and early high school. Also on my own accord, I came to the conclusion that the existence of a higher being is pretty unlikely. I don't believe that there is no god, but I believe that there isn't any real evidence to support the existance of god and that the beliefs of almost all religions are flawed in many ways.

I think that atheism isn't really the correct term for most people who categorize themselves as such; they're prolly what should really be called agnostics. I think the term atheist is used so that the religious nuts won't get it in their head that a conversion to faith is at all possible.
 
Bleakest Harvest said:
Plenty...what with Creationists generally being fundamentalists Christians and thus believing the world is 10,000 years old or something like that. Idiots.
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this will probably do nothing for you, since you don't believe in "creationism" or the Bible, but i can offer some of the logic behind it from that point of view.

When God created Adam, he didn't create him as a little baby, or as he would be when first beginning his life, he was an adult (same with Eve). The same holds true for plants and animals - it wasn't seeds planted in the ground and baby animals running around on dirt until grass and trees grew, the world was created in an "advanced" stage, if you will. This to say, that some believe the world would not necessarily look like something only 10,000 years old. Personally, I have no idea what to think about dinosaurs. Maybe they were around when people were, I really have no idea. I know about as much as I care, which is hardly at all. But, the point, is that some believe, which you alluded to earlier with the "they were put there to test faith" thing, that they wouldn't have had to exist, they are merely part of a world which looks much older than it really is. And I have to say just one more time that I really have no idea what to think.
 
Hmmm...so maybe we walked alongside dinosaurs [/snigger]
Yeah right.

Assuming the bible *was* the true word of god or whatever, I would highly doubt that even god himself would be stupid enough to want people to take it all literally. Even that bastion of truth and enlightenment, the Catholic church, has admitted that the bible is not the literal word of god.

Besides, if God is omnipotent, couldn't he have just forseen the fall of mankind and prevented it instead of being a sadist cunt and watching it all happen with a big grin on his ancient face? And then having the audacity to blame it on us, even though he put that fucking tree there in the first place? Even though he allowed Satan into the garden of Eden????? Doesn't add up :D
 
Bleakest Harvest said:
Even that bastion of truth and enlightenment, the Catholic church, has admitted that the bible is not the literal word of god.
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the governor of potatosville has admitted that he wears dirty socks.

just a parallel of how much credibility i give the catholic church.

the rest of your post is too depressing to delve into at this point. bedtime.
 
To address that all familiar arguement...

By definition I am an atheist, yet as has been said by yourdeadgroom, it's not that I choose to 'BELIEVE there isn't a god' it's more 'I haven't been given enough proof that there is a good so I choose to dismiss the concept'... it doesn't really matter which way you word it though, it just becomes rhetorical but the main point stands that as far as atheists go 'since there is not enough substantial proof for me, I choose not to believe that there is a god' (which you could obviously word as 'I choose to BELIEVE there isn't a god' which is essentially the same thing).

See this is the thing I hate about the English language (and probably others... don't know many, excuse me for that). If you word things a certain way you can let someone fall into your worded traps, which is basically just rhetorical bullshit.

When I was born... I had no idea of 'god', didn't fathom of the concept of 'god' so therefore I obviously did not BELIEVE in 'god'... so as far as it goes, aren't we all born Atheist? So as I go through life and I see these people and they give their faith to god... and I wonder why, exactly, I should accept their beliefs of one when there is obviously no reason to believe in one, appart from one's personal insecurities... there is as much proof of a 'god' existing as there is explanation of what happens where science currently has a gray area. Basically this concept of 'god' fills the void of things that we don't know.. which is why I REFUSE to believe in something so seemingly blinding, self-defeating and entrapping and when looked at thoroughly, ludicrous.

Also the Adam and Eve story that has been brought about... if you don't yet understand that this story is just an analogy (metaphor, allegory, whatever the hell you wanna call it) that sets a basis moral ground for what the bible TELLS you is right and wrong, then I can't help but pity you.

The stories within the bible are just to be drawn as parallels to what can happen in real-life if we do not obey the tennants of the bible... it's a book filled with stories reinforcing the 'Christian' moral ground as well as reinforcing that all too popular concept of god, which with the bible is so riddled with contradictions and metaphors, it's hard to know what to take literally... then again the bible was written in an age where people were alot dumber, ignorant and more gullible so I'm assuming not many questioned these things.

All this questioning... THIS is what makes me atheist... this to me is the real definition of someone who refuses to believe in god.
 
All this questioning... THIS is what makes me atheist... this to me is the real definition of someone who refuses to believe in god.
Click to expand...

I think those same reasons are what makes me agnostic. I do not completely and utterly rule out the possibility of there being a god, but for now I remain very sceptical. Who knows, goid might come to me ina dream and tell me to start believing or he'll kick my ass. But until then... :D
 
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