dead bodies everywhere

[avi]

I'm really just incredibly saddened and ashamed by the whole ordeal. It's really bringing a lot of American's ugliness to the forefront such as the ingrained system of racism and the huge poverty gap. It was possible to live in denial about these things before, but it's pretty hard to ignore now.

 

[mindspell]

lovely.

if a hurricane wiped out a city in Canada, what would happen?

Not much, for one thing we are not stupid enough to build a city under sea level, in a fucking swamp. A few houses maybe, a city, not likely. And yes, Amsterdam is just as stupid a concept.

Aside from that, we would have the same problems you do because our small military is spread out all over the place and they wouldn't of much help. We probably would have a lot less looting and a lot less shooting for obvious reasons. But I would expect disorganization to be the same.

This is a huge challenge for anybody. You know Guliani had it easy for 9/11 compared to this. They have acres and acres of land to sift through, thousands of people to move. Everybody complaning that they didn't get a free meal (WTG? did you see the devastation around you, don't you think you can wait a little bit before asking for the 4-Seasons?).

There is this folk singer from Louisiana that made a nice career right here in Quebec because he sings in french was saying that his hometown, Lafayette, was totally under siege of "refugees" and that he had no idea what they would do with that many people. They already filled Houston stadium for crying out loud!

 

[avi]

it's hard to fathom. I'm just trying to imagine a similar disaster in another western country and what the response/fallout would be.

 

[minxnim]

i wonder if any other countries will offer to help us?

 

[avi]

I read that Venezuela offered $1mil and called Bush "King of vacations" in the process

 

[avi]

from the other board:
ABC world news last night said that 20+ countries have pledged food, money, resources, and/or people

UN has offered financial support, Germany has offered portable water generators.... Bush administration has yet to respond.

 

[lizard]

it's making me sick, and for me to lose my appetite, is really saying something.

Mindspell - I know what you're saying about the below sea level thing...but NO was founded in the 1600s as so many old cities were, on a river or port convenient to commerce. it's a little simplistic to just say, well they're below sea level no big surprise they're getting fucked over now. rationally, you're right...maybe I'm just affected by this too much to be making sense. meh.

 

[lizard]

I read that Venezuela offered $1mil and called Bush "King of vacations" in the process

haha that's hilarious.

Canada and Russia have both offered assistance and have either not received replies or been told no.

I know Bush isn't a voracious reader but I would recommend he read the book Cry from the Deep, about the Russian nuclear sub disaster, where Russia refused help from Scandinavian countries and the US, for days, while their sub crew slowly perished from exposure and suffocation. A public relations disaster, even apart from the human loss.

 

[avi]

oh yeah. I haven't read that book, but I know the story.

Will Bush swallow his pride? I'm thinking no.

 

[lizard]

Anyone who conducts himself with such a misplaced sense of entitlement can't swallow pride; the very thought would never occur to him.

 

[minxnim]

also didn't we buy louisiana from the french?

anyway, well i hope bush allows people to help from other countries. can we just let them in anyway? i mean they let terrorists in so why not nice people?

 

[lizard]

and some of those cute rescue dogs. talk about hounds who earn their keep.

 

[lizard]

jesus, Bush can't buy a break...now he's being undermined by clay figures:

9/1/2005
Even Mr. Bill Knew the Levees Wouldn't Hold:
In early 2004, lovable, crushable clay animated figure Mr. Bill from Saturday Night Live starred in an ad to alert people to the problems with the wetlands in Louisiana. On Good Morning, America today, President Bush said, "I don't think anyone could have anticipated the breach of the levees." He was wrong. Mr. Bill already had. Here's a transcript of the stunningly prescient ad, from CNN on May 27, 2004:

MR. BILL: Gee, kids, I'm not sure we can do our show today because it looks like Hurricane Sluggo is headed right for us here in America's wetlands.

WALTER WILLIAMS, MR. BILL CREATOR: That's right, Mr. Bill. And since New Orleans is below sea level, if a hurricane hit us directly, it could push the water over the levees and fill it to the top.

BILL: Well then we'd better leave.

WILLIAMS: Well it's too late to evacuate since all the roads are jammed and under water.

BILL: Then where can we go that's safe?

WILLIAMS: Here this should work.

BILL: Gee, I hope it doesn't get much higher.

WILLIAMS: Well, Red, the alligator, doesn't seem too worried.

BILL: Yes, that's because he can swim. You know I don't do that too well.

WILLIAMS: Well in that case, Red says he'll have one of his buddies come and give you a lift.

BILL: That's OK. Maybe you could mind the water wings or something. Oh, get me out of here! No, wait, no, no, ohhh!

WILLIAMS: Let's act now before it's too late.

By the way, Williams pulled Mr. Bill out of the campaign in June of this year when he believed it was being used as a tool to cover up the misdeeds of Shell Oil.

 

[avi]

I'm just so disgusted.

 

[Josh Seipp]

also didn't we buy louisiana from the french?

anyway, well i hope bush allows people to help from other countries. can we just let them in anyway? i mean they let terrorists in so why not nice people?

oh god, I HOPE we start blaming the French for this

 

[avi]

again, from the other board:
(from my housemate, who works for the WH military office. i'm using my fake account so he/she won't get in trouble for sharing this. trust me when i say, this is the straight dope and can be taken at its word.)

- approximately 8000 people have been evacuated from rooftops, levees, and other outdoor sites so far.
- between 12,000-15,000 still remain to be evac'd, not including Superdome and other refuge sites -- just the uncovered locations.
- many deaths predicted in the next two or three days from squalid conditions and no medical supplies among those still stranded.
- estimate between 500-1000 murders in the city since Tuesday.
- estimate an equal number of rapes.
- many of these are abduction-rape-murders of young children (NOLA has the highest per capita of convicted pedophiles in the US).
- big concerns about the number of dead families trapped in attics of submerged houses -- those who couldn't punch through the roof as waters rose.
- GW Bush is touring the sites today; huge military convoy will accompany.
- Cheney was supposed to be on a hunting trip in Canada (as mentioned on another thread) but he canceled and is back in DC "dealing with shit."
- 20,000 National Guard troops on their way into NOLA and surrounding areas today, many of them just returned from Iraq; charged with restoring order at all costs, then securing the area -- meaning EVERYONE MUST LEAVE.

here's where things get REALLY intense:
- NOLA has a vast level of contamination -- way beyond habitable conditions.
- these include: ruptured gas/oil pipelines, flooded refineries and oil-related industry, contaminated lake and Gulf of Mexico runoff, medical waste in flooded hospitals, floating gas from submerged vehicles and fill-up stations, noxious chemicals that don't mix well with water (e.g. ammonium nitrate, which is believed to have been in the railway cars that exploded this morning), and thousands of dead, floating bodies and animals.
- potential cleanup of these areas will be akin to the EPA's Superfund cleanup initiative [www.epa.gov] that has run since the 80s.
- in other words, the soil contamination is on par with a hazardous waste dumping site.
- this will require most buildings and infrastructure to be COMPLETELY razed and the demolition sites decontaminated, and THEN a second decon project will need to strip 3-5 feet of ground soil from the top surface before any rebuilding can occur. even buildings that are structurally sound will probably be demolitioned.
- given that the New Orleans basin is already 6 feet below sea level avg., there are questions about whether such a cleanup and rebuild is cost-efficient enough to warrant the federal government's involvement. discussions are being held about whether to fund any large-scale redevelopment directly, or let tax-subsidized organizations bid on contracts to do so.

once the greater New Orleans area is sealed, estimates are that real work on this decontamination won't really happen for 6-8 months in the more suburban areas, and 3-5 years within the city itself.

 

[minxnim]

what a mess

 

[lizard]

the decontamination aspect I had already read about...man, this is epic.

oh god, I HOPE we start blaming the French for this

how long will it be before some moron proposes renaming the French Quarter Freedom Quarter.

 

[0sm0se]

It's starting to sound like there just isn't going to be a NO ever again. It'll be a location but a habitable city, with all the contamination and the need for essentially burning the entire area to the ground after this massive flood, we are going to end up with a ghost city that will end up lawless and guarded to keep people out. Also, amount of money lost by insurance companies is going to be crippling to our economy along with the gasoline lost and price hike. We are headed for a new depression and this one isn't like the one in the thirties.

 

[mindspell]

Yes, the english bought Louisiana from the french, Louisiana is named after Louis XIV. Problem is the part of NO that was built by the french is above sea level. The part of NO that was originally built in the 1600s was above sea level. The fact remains that the city is in all this shit because of the urban planning that has been done in the past 100 years Lizard, I know it is cold to say that right now but the fact remains that this was not ver well thought out. This is a city right smack in the middle of possible hurricane paths and they knew that from the beginning, it is not any worse now than it has been the past, just that it hit very directly this time around.