dead bodies everywhere
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lizard
Member
and I don't see the Koppel bit on http://www.crooksandliars.com/ but it is always a site worth checking out for video clips. it's amazing how Anderson Cooper and that CNN Cafferty dude are openly expressing outrage at this situation. The site hasn't been updated yet today but if anyone has the koppel thing, this site will.
Josh Seipp
Member
here is a SEVERELY edited version (I would really like to read the actual transcript to see how it measures up but if it's even close to this, bravo to TK)
Ted Koppel Rips, Rips RIPS Michael Brown of FEMA on "Nightline"
by Michael in New York - 9/02/2005 12:08:00 AM
Some choice highlights.
Koppel (on the number of people at the convention center -- the mayor says 15,000 to 25,000 and FEMA said only 5000): One of you is wrong. It's either 5000 or 15,000. Do you know?
Brown of FEMA: Blah blah blah. 25,000.... We just learned of the convention center -- we being the federal government -- today.
Koppel: I've heard you say during the course of a number of interviews that you found out about the convention center today. Don't you guys watch television? Don't you guys listen to the radio? Our reporters have been reporting on it for more than just today.
Brown of FEMA: We learned about (the convention center) FACTUALLY today that that's what existed.
(Brown responds to another question by saying troops are going to be moving in soon.)
Koppel: Here we are essentially FIVE DAYS after the storm hit and you're talking about what's going to happen in the next couple of days.... You didn't make preparations for what was going to happen in the event that [a category four storm hit]. Why didn't you?
(Brown then complains that poor people who don't own cars and can't afford hotel rooms didn't jump into their SUVs and head to the Hyatt in Atlanta. He then sidesteps Koppel by implying it was the city's fault for not having buses available for the very poor.)
Koppel: I'm not asking you why the city didn't have buses available. I'm asking you why you didn't have National Guards with trucks to get them out of there. Why you didn't have people with flatbed trailers if that's what you needed. Why you didn't simply get as many Greyhound buses from surrounding states as you could lay your hands on to get those people out of there. Why you haven't done it TO THIS DAY.
Transcript and video coming soon.
Thank God Koppel is there to ask the common sense questions we've been talking about all day. And how soon before Brown gets his Medal of Freedom?
NOTE: One quote caught my ear but I didn't quite focus on it. I've played it again and Brown is laying the groundwork for putting the blame on LA's governor. (It must be a Fox News talking point; my dad made the same argument earlier.)
Brown of FEMA: We work closely with the state government. The federal government didn not just come in here and tell the state governor how or what to do. We came in here and said, 'What do you want us to do? We will help you.' We are now taking it upon ourselves to do what we think needs to be done. And we will continue to do that.
Ted Koppel Rips, Rips RIPS Michael Brown of FEMA on "Nightline"
by Michael in New York - 9/02/2005 12:08:00 AM
Some choice highlights.
Koppel (on the number of people at the convention center -- the mayor says 15,000 to 25,000 and FEMA said only 5000): One of you is wrong. It's either 5000 or 15,000. Do you know?
Brown of FEMA: Blah blah blah. 25,000.... We just learned of the convention center -- we being the federal government -- today.
Koppel: I've heard you say during the course of a number of interviews that you found out about the convention center today. Don't you guys watch television? Don't you guys listen to the radio? Our reporters have been reporting on it for more than just today.
Brown of FEMA: We learned about (the convention center) FACTUALLY today that that's what existed.
(Brown responds to another question by saying troops are going to be moving in soon.)
Koppel: Here we are essentially FIVE DAYS after the storm hit and you're talking about what's going to happen in the next couple of days.... You didn't make preparations for what was going to happen in the event that [a category four storm hit]. Why didn't you?
(Brown then complains that poor people who don't own cars and can't afford hotel rooms didn't jump into their SUVs and head to the Hyatt in Atlanta. He then sidesteps Koppel by implying it was the city's fault for not having buses available for the very poor.)
Koppel: I'm not asking you why the city didn't have buses available. I'm asking you why you didn't have National Guards with trucks to get them out of there. Why you didn't have people with flatbed trailers if that's what you needed. Why you didn't simply get as many Greyhound buses from surrounding states as you could lay your hands on to get those people out of there. Why you haven't done it TO THIS DAY.
Transcript and video coming soon.
Thank God Koppel is there to ask the common sense questions we've been talking about all day. And how soon before Brown gets his Medal of Freedom?
NOTE: One quote caught my ear but I didn't quite focus on it. I've played it again and Brown is laying the groundwork for putting the blame on LA's governor. (It must be a Fox News talking point; my dad made the same argument earlier.)
Brown of FEMA: We work closely with the state government. The federal government didn not just come in here and tell the state governor how or what to do. We came in here and said, 'What do you want us to do? We will help you.' We are now taking it upon ourselves to do what we think needs to be done. And we will continue to do that.
goatschool
Member
minx, i agree that there's some sort of black magic going on there.
i have to hand it to the media, i mean i don't know about FOX but everyone else is openly criticizing and showing a backbone.
i have to hand it to the media, i mean i don't know about FOX but everyone else is openly criticizing and showing a backbone.
goatschool
Member
how can we turn this tragedy into a personal ordeal? i hate that our local news stations ALWAYS try to link ANYTHING happening anywhere to local people or issues. unfuckingbelievable.
having said that, the new orleans situation has led to me getting called dumb on BCO FTW
having said that, the new orleans situation has led to me getting called dumb on BCO FTW
minxnim
meow
lizard
Member
goatschool
Member
some guy who's more of a hick than i am. and i think you summed it up - the aggressive defense (of what, though?) is outta hand over there. more than ever, i think.
and one thing - do other people's local news stations try to do what i described a few posts ago?
and one thing - do other people's local news stations try to do what i described a few posts ago?
lizard
Member
goatschool
Member
World stunned as US struggles with Katrina
Sep 02 10:08 AM US/Eastern
By Andrew Gray
LONDON (Reuters) - The world has watched amazed as the planet's only superpower struggles with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, with some saying the chaos has exposed flaws and deep divisions in American society.
World leaders and ordinary citizens have expressed sympathy with the people of the southern United States whose lives were devastated by the hurricane and the flooding that followed.
But many have also been shocked by the images of disorder beamed around the world -- looters roaming the debris-strewn streets and thousands of people gathered in New Orleans waiting for the authorities to provide food, water and other aid.
"Anarchy in the USA" declared Britain's best-selling newspaper The Sun.
"Apocalypse Now" headlined Germany's Handelsblatt daily.
The pictures of the catastrophe -- which has killed hundreds and possibly thousands -- have evoked memories of crises in the world's poorest nations such as last year's tsunami in Asia, which left more than 230,000 people dead or missing.
But some view the response to those disasters more favorably than the lawless aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
"I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."
SINKING INTO ANARCHY
Many newspapers highlighted criticism of local and state authorities and of President Bush. Some compared the sputtering relief effort with the massive amounts of money and resources poured into the war in Iraq.
"A modern metropolis sinking in water and into anarchy -- it is a really cruel spectacle for a champion of security like Bush," France's left-leaning Liberation newspaper said.
"(Al Qaeda leader Osama) bin Laden, nice and dry in his hideaway, must be killing himself laughing."
A female employee at a multinational firm in South Korea said it may have been no accident the U.S. was hit.
"Maybe it was punishment for what it did to Iraq, which has a man-made disaster, not a natural disaster," said the woman, who did not want to be named as she has an American manager.
"A lot of the people I work with think this way. We spoke about it just the other day," she said.
Commentators noted the victims of the hurricane were overwhelmingly African Americans, too poor to flee the region as the hurricane loomed unlike some of their white neighbors.
New Orleans ranks fifth in the United States in terms of African American population and 67 percent of the city's residents are black.
"In one of the poorest states in the country, where black people earn half as much as white people, this has taken on a racial dimension," said a report in Britain's Guardian daily.
Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn, in a veiled criticism of U.S. political thought, said the disaster showed the need for a strong state that could help poor people.
"You see in this example that even in the 21st century you need the state, a good functioning state, and I hope that for all these people, these poor people, that the Americans will do their best," he told reporters at a European Union meeting in Newport, Wales.
David Fordham, 33, a hospital anesthetist speaking at a London underground rail station, said he had spent time in America and was not surprised the country had struggled to cope.
"Maybe they just thought they could sit it out and everything would be okay," he said.
"It's unbelievable though -- the TV images -- and your heart goes out to them."
(With reporting by Reuters bureaux around the world)
Sep 02 10:08 AM US/Eastern
By Andrew Gray
LONDON (Reuters) - The world has watched amazed as the planet's only superpower struggles with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, with some saying the chaos has exposed flaws and deep divisions in American society.
World leaders and ordinary citizens have expressed sympathy with the people of the southern United States whose lives were devastated by the hurricane and the flooding that followed.
But many have also been shocked by the images of disorder beamed around the world -- looters roaming the debris-strewn streets and thousands of people gathered in New Orleans waiting for the authorities to provide food, water and other aid.
"Anarchy in the USA" declared Britain's best-selling newspaper The Sun.
"Apocalypse Now" headlined Germany's Handelsblatt daily.
The pictures of the catastrophe -- which has killed hundreds and possibly thousands -- have evoked memories of crises in the world's poorest nations such as last year's tsunami in Asia, which left more than 230,000 people dead or missing.
But some view the response to those disasters more favorably than the lawless aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
"I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."
SINKING INTO ANARCHY
Many newspapers highlighted criticism of local and state authorities and of President Bush. Some compared the sputtering relief effort with the massive amounts of money and resources poured into the war in Iraq.
"A modern metropolis sinking in water and into anarchy -- it is a really cruel spectacle for a champion of security like Bush," France's left-leaning Liberation newspaper said.
"(Al Qaeda leader Osama) bin Laden, nice and dry in his hideaway, must be killing himself laughing."
A female employee at a multinational firm in South Korea said it may have been no accident the U.S. was hit.
"Maybe it was punishment for what it did to Iraq, which has a man-made disaster, not a natural disaster," said the woman, who did not want to be named as she has an American manager.
"A lot of the people I work with think this way. We spoke about it just the other day," she said.
Commentators noted the victims of the hurricane were overwhelmingly African Americans, too poor to flee the region as the hurricane loomed unlike some of their white neighbors.
New Orleans ranks fifth in the United States in terms of African American population and 67 percent of the city's residents are black.
"In one of the poorest states in the country, where black people earn half as much as white people, this has taken on a racial dimension," said a report in Britain's Guardian daily.
Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn, in a veiled criticism of U.S. political thought, said the disaster showed the need for a strong state that could help poor people.
"You see in this example that even in the 21st century you need the state, a good functioning state, and I hope that for all these people, these poor people, that the Americans will do their best," he told reporters at a European Union meeting in Newport, Wales.
David Fordham, 33, a hospital anesthetist speaking at a London underground rail station, said he had spent time in America and was not surprised the country had struggled to cope.
"Maybe they just thought they could sit it out and everything would be okay," he said.
"It's unbelievable though -- the TV images -- and your heart goes out to them."
(With reporting by Reuters bureaux around the world)
Josh Seipp
Member
I'm inclined to agree
except for this:
"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."
I find that very hard to believe
except for this:
"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."
I find that very hard to believe
goatschool
Member
lizard
Member
oh noe...Daryn Kagan won't be gettin any Limbaugh lovin tonite...
Daryn Kagan:
"I gotta say that was rather an odd thing to be watching. The president finally making it to the gulf coast after five days, and then spending a big chunk of time, when he could be out seeing the devastation, getting a briefing that frankly he could have gotten back at the White House, if not then, then on board Air Force One. A lot of that seemed like a political opportunity for the cameras and for the Republican governors of Mississippi and Alabama."
Daryn Kagan:
"I gotta say that was rather an odd thing to be watching. The president finally making it to the gulf coast after five days, and then spending a big chunk of time, when he could be out seeing the devastation, getting a briefing that frankly he could have gotten back at the White House, if not then, then on board Air Force One. A lot of that seemed like a political opportunity for the cameras and for the Republican governors of Mississippi and Alabama."
lizard
Member
lizard
Member
A Brief Timeline of the Berlin Airlift
June 24, 1948: Blockade of Berlin begins.
June 25, 1948: Berlin airlift begins.
May 12, 1949: Blockade ends.
September 30, 1949: Airlift ends.
A Brief Timeline of the Tsunami Disaster
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4154791.stm
Dec. 26, 0059 GMT Quake hits.
Dec. 26, 0130 GMT Tsunami hits.
Dec. 28, Relief operation begins.
Jan 1. US Aircraft carrier arrives in Indonesia, sending helicopters, heavy machinery, and water purifcation equipment to Banda Aceh.
June 24, 1948: Blockade of Berlin begins.
June 25, 1948: Berlin airlift begins.
May 12, 1949: Blockade ends.
September 30, 1949: Airlift ends.
A Brief Timeline of the Tsunami Disaster
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4154791.stm
Dec. 26, 0059 GMT Quake hits.
Dec. 26, 0130 GMT Tsunami hits.
Dec. 28, Relief operation begins.
Jan 1. US Aircraft carrier arrives in Indonesia, sending helicopters, heavy machinery, and water purifcation equipment to Banda Aceh.
lizard
Member
Notice the nicely positioned Coast Guard helicopters in the background, not rescuing people and delivering supplies. Notice the uniformed personnel standing at attention in the back, providing a nice backdrop to Bush, not rescuing people and delivering supplies. Notice how Bush's sleeves are rolled up, as if he's gone, "grrrr, grrrrr, let's go save us some victims, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!"
mindspell
vvv Jake's ass vvv
lizard
Member
Diarist "mcolley" at Kos (reprinted in its entirety because of its eloquence):
The Right, as embodied by Limbaugh, Frist, Bush, Hastert, DeLay. They would move heaven and earth to save the life of one White Woman in Florida to combat the very idea of euthanasia (which technically it was not). A woman that a decade earlier had lost her ability to so much as ask for help, much less have coherent thoughts about the quality of her own life.
And they would sit on their ass and watch as tens of thousands of poor men, women, children, babies, and elderly bake in the New Orleans heat surrounded by water, sewage, gasoline and an abandoned city, now devoid of anyone with the means to have escaped ahead of the storm.
This is the culture of life. The culture of life wants to save brain dead white women and unborn children. The culture of life wants you to watch endless non-news about the disappearance of one white teenager in Aruba. The culture of life wants you to support your nation as it kills tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians in its Quixotic quest against a non-threat. The culture of life wants a zero-tolerance for looters policy to sound authoritative as babies die of dehydration. The culture of life expects you to take care of yourself, and if you can't, then it is your own fault for getting into that situation in the first place. Fuck off. You had your shot. Station in life, where you hang your hat, and whether you have the $40 at the end of the month to pay for the overpriced gasoline to get out of that home in time is all up to you.
Always I have argued with Republican friends--the reasonable ones--that not everyone was dealt the same cards on their original Birth Day. Not everyone has been given the same gifts by God, friends, family, or luck. Always those Republican friends believe that they deserve where they have gotten in life, and that no one, including the government, should be asking for their hard-earned cash to help the less affluent. It is always the fault of the lesser-affluent themselves. Circumstances are irrelevant in all cases and constitute class warfare if the question is raised.
Bullshit.
But that's their thing. That's how they see the world. They earned everything they got. Their parents might have given them a nudge, but nothing more. Get a fucking clue.
Bush came away from his mega vacation one day early...Wednesday. Hastert doesn't know why we should rebuild. Condie Rice went to the show on Broadway.
All of these people support the Culter of Life. But none seem to support American Culture. New Orleans, as much as any city, represents distinctly American Culture. A melting-pot of language, music and revelry unlike any other. But it is desperately poor. Over 50% of the children in the state live below the poverty level. But no matter. Mostly black folk down there. They shouldn't have lived there in the first place. They should have gotten out while they had the chance. It's their own fault.
Michael Chertoff was interviewed on NPR this afternoon. He was asked if he had heard of thousands of people at the Convention Center in New Orleans, without water or food or sanitation. Elderly dying. Little girls being raped. Mr. Chertoff was eloquent in his cluelessness. Completely unaware of what had been on the television all day long on both MSNBC and CNN. Unaware that he, at the top of the agency charged with bringing relief to the affected areas, had not been informed of something every American with a remote already knew. That the situation there was desperate. That people needed help. And that noone seemed to be providing it. The man in charge was not in charge at all, folks. It took the Bush Administration 4 years since 9/11... 4 years of chasing ghosts and old demons in Iraq to not do a fucking thing about stateside preparedness. To gut the national guard's responsiveness by sending so many of them overseas. To cut funding for the levee system that allowed Lake Ponchartrain to roll into the city. To put someone in charge of Homeland Security and FEMA that is eloquent, but so impossibly incompetent that he is incapable of establishing a staff capable of letting him know the worst of a situation so large.
Mr. Chertoff said, that he had not heard of such things. That you couldn't believe every rumor from the streets of the area. That he wasn't in a position to argue about what the NPR Reporters had witnessed.
Get the people to our staging areas, he stated, and they can get water there.
Thanks, asshole.
I almost cried last night. A little girl was with her grandfather, their late model sedan stalled in hip deep water. She was standing on what I think was the highway divider next to the car. Soaked. Crying. Her grandfather, dismayed and dazed behind her. Both of them looked at the car, but it was the begging of the young girl that got me. She couldn't have been more than 2 years older than my daughter. And there she was, in the middle of a lake that wasn't there the day before, in the middle of a city that had been destroyed, begging and pleading for the people filming her, and those they were with, to help them. They just needed a push. To higher ground.
And there she stayed, as the vehicle the camera rode in pulled away.
The Right, as embodied by Limbaugh, Frist, Bush, Hastert, DeLay. They would move heaven and earth to save the life of one White Woman in Florida to combat the very idea of euthanasia (which technically it was not). A woman that a decade earlier had lost her ability to so much as ask for help, much less have coherent thoughts about the quality of her own life.
And they would sit on their ass and watch as tens of thousands of poor men, women, children, babies, and elderly bake in the New Orleans heat surrounded by water, sewage, gasoline and an abandoned city, now devoid of anyone with the means to have escaped ahead of the storm.
This is the culture of life. The culture of life wants to save brain dead white women and unborn children. The culture of life wants you to watch endless non-news about the disappearance of one white teenager in Aruba. The culture of life wants you to support your nation as it kills tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians in its Quixotic quest against a non-threat. The culture of life wants a zero-tolerance for looters policy to sound authoritative as babies die of dehydration. The culture of life expects you to take care of yourself, and if you can't, then it is your own fault for getting into that situation in the first place. Fuck off. You had your shot. Station in life, where you hang your hat, and whether you have the $40 at the end of the month to pay for the overpriced gasoline to get out of that home in time is all up to you.
Always I have argued with Republican friends--the reasonable ones--that not everyone was dealt the same cards on their original Birth Day. Not everyone has been given the same gifts by God, friends, family, or luck. Always those Republican friends believe that they deserve where they have gotten in life, and that no one, including the government, should be asking for their hard-earned cash to help the less affluent. It is always the fault of the lesser-affluent themselves. Circumstances are irrelevant in all cases and constitute class warfare if the question is raised.
Bullshit.
But that's their thing. That's how they see the world. They earned everything they got. Their parents might have given them a nudge, but nothing more. Get a fucking clue.
Bush came away from his mega vacation one day early...Wednesday. Hastert doesn't know why we should rebuild. Condie Rice went to the show on Broadway.
All of these people support the Culter of Life. But none seem to support American Culture. New Orleans, as much as any city, represents distinctly American Culture. A melting-pot of language, music and revelry unlike any other. But it is desperately poor. Over 50% of the children in the state live below the poverty level. But no matter. Mostly black folk down there. They shouldn't have lived there in the first place. They should have gotten out while they had the chance. It's their own fault.
Michael Chertoff was interviewed on NPR this afternoon. He was asked if he had heard of thousands of people at the Convention Center in New Orleans, without water or food or sanitation. Elderly dying. Little girls being raped. Mr. Chertoff was eloquent in his cluelessness. Completely unaware of what had been on the television all day long on both MSNBC and CNN. Unaware that he, at the top of the agency charged with bringing relief to the affected areas, had not been informed of something every American with a remote already knew. That the situation there was desperate. That people needed help. And that noone seemed to be providing it. The man in charge was not in charge at all, folks. It took the Bush Administration 4 years since 9/11... 4 years of chasing ghosts and old demons in Iraq to not do a fucking thing about stateside preparedness. To gut the national guard's responsiveness by sending so many of them overseas. To cut funding for the levee system that allowed Lake Ponchartrain to roll into the city. To put someone in charge of Homeland Security and FEMA that is eloquent, but so impossibly incompetent that he is incapable of establishing a staff capable of letting him know the worst of a situation so large.
Mr. Chertoff said, that he had not heard of such things. That you couldn't believe every rumor from the streets of the area. That he wasn't in a position to argue about what the NPR Reporters had witnessed.
Get the people to our staging areas, he stated, and they can get water there.
Thanks, asshole.
I almost cried last night. A little girl was with her grandfather, their late model sedan stalled in hip deep water. She was standing on what I think was the highway divider next to the car. Soaked. Crying. Her grandfather, dismayed and dazed behind her. Both of them looked at the car, but it was the begging of the young girl that got me. She couldn't have been more than 2 years older than my daughter. And there she was, in the middle of a lake that wasn't there the day before, in the middle of a city that had been destroyed, begging and pleading for the people filming her, and those they were with, to help them. They just needed a push. To higher ground.
And there she stayed, as the vehicle the camera rode in pulled away.
lizard
Member
FEMA Dir. Mike Brown fired from prior job at Horse Assoc.
"An unmitigated, total fucking disaster." That's not a quote from Mike Brown, but rather, a quote describing him. And most disturbingly, it's not even a reference to his dismal performance as director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). This blunt critique was emailed to me from a regular reader:
"I think I've told you that I'm into Arab horses. Well, for 3 years Michael Brown was hired and then fired by our IAHA, the International Arabian Horse Assoc. He was an unmitigated, total fucking disaster. I was shocked as hell when captain clueless put him in charge of FEMA a couple of years ago."
so this dude couldn't even hack a job at a horse Assn, but it's cool to make him director of FEMA. gah.
"An unmitigated, total fucking disaster." That's not a quote from Mike Brown, but rather, a quote describing him. And most disturbingly, it's not even a reference to his dismal performance as director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). This blunt critique was emailed to me from a regular reader:
"I think I've told you that I'm into Arab horses. Well, for 3 years Michael Brown was hired and then fired by our IAHA, the International Arabian Horse Assoc. He was an unmitigated, total fucking disaster. I was shocked as hell when captain clueless put him in charge of FEMA a couple of years ago."
so this dude couldn't even hack a job at a horse Assn, but it's cool to make him director of FEMA. gah.
goatschool
Member
the mayor of that city is having a fucking meltdown. unbelievable, and i agree with every word he's been saying.
"PUT A MORATORIUM ON ALL PRESS CONFERENCES. NO MORE GODDAMN PRESS CONFERENCES UNTIL THE HELP GETS HERE"
"PUT A MORATORIUM ON ALL PRESS CONFERENCES. NO MORE GODDAMN PRESS CONFERENCES UNTIL THE HELP GETS HERE"
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